AC Tupac Yupanqui 10yo refit

[Jefgte]

For the rebuild with 3 twin 12-inch turrets, shouldn't there be one superfiring?

Without new Engines

6000t to 7375t, Peru EC laid down 1911

Displacement:
   7 375 t light; 7 898 t standard; 8 695 t normal; 9 334 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft (Bulges 77.43 ft) x 17.77 ft (normal load)
   130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m (Bulges 23.60 m)  x 5.42 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 614 lbs / 2 546 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   278.87 ft / 85.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 998 shp / 13 426 Kw = 21.02 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 436 tons

Complement:
   449 - 585

Cost:
   £0.950 million / $3.799 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 702 tons, 8.1 %
   Armour: 1 568 tons, 18.0 %
      - Belts: 621 tons, 7.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 451 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 730 tons, 8.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 214 tons, 48.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 320 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 356 lbs / 4 697 Kg = 12.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.64 ft / 6.90 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.55 ft / 5.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.61 ft / 4.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 717 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

With 3T3x230 on a 130m hull
Without new engines


6000T to 6480T, NUS EC laid down 1911
Displacement:
   6 480 t light; 7 067 t standard; 7 812 t normal; 8 408 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.29 ft (normal load)
   130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m  x 5.27 m

Armament:
     9 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (3x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 779 lbs / 1 714 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   278.87 ft / 85.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18 000 shp / 13 428 Kw = 21.44 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 341 tons

Complement:
   415 - 540

Cost:
   £0.726 million / $2.903 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 472 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 1 529 tons, 19.6 %
      - Belts: 621 tons, 8.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 414 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 731 tons, 9.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 548 tons, 45.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 332 tons, 17.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 066 lbs / 5 020 Kg = 29.8 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Stern:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.09 ft / 4.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.89
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
-------------------------------------------------------
With 3T2x275 (New modern gun from GC) on a 130m hull
Without new engines


6000T to 6720T , NUS Escort Cruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
   6 720 t light; 7 201 t standard; 7 953 t normal; 8 555 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   429.46 ft / 429.46 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.60 ft (normal load)
   130.90 m / 130.90 m x 21.80 m  x 5.36 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 609 lbs / 2 091 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 122
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   278.87 ft / 85.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.36 ft / 5.90 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 996 shp / 13 425 Kw = 21.38 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 354 tons

Complement:
   420 - 547

Cost:
   £0.805 million / $3.218 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 556 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 1 527 tons, 19.2 %
      - Belts: 621 tons, 7.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 412 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 453 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 730 tons, 9.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 714 tons, 46.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 233 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 192 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 316 lbs / 4 679 Kg = 16.3 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.64 ft / 6.90 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.11 ft / 4.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.11 ft / 4.30 m
      - Stern:      14.11 ft / 4.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.51 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 749 Square feet or 1 928 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 648 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[eltf177]

I'm really on the fence here. The 9.06-inch quads and 10.83-inch twins can put a lot of shells on target but won't be as useful against enemy BB's. The twin 12-inch version has more punch but obviously can't put down as many shells.

However, given the thin armor on these ships I'd plan on staying away from emeny BB's as that's a losing proposition. The 9.06-inch quads are probably the best bet here.

[Jefgte]

...The 9.06-inch quads are probably the best bet here.

I agree.
Remove the 2T2x12" & install in place, 2T4x230 is the best choice.
The hull does not need rebuilt, I have just to change the 2 turrets.
That is also an economical rebuilt.

6000T cruiser, Peru Escort Cruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
   6 000 t light; 6 370 t standard; 7 070 t normal; 7 630 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   390.42 ft / 390.42 ft x 71.52 ft x 17.21 ft (normal load)
   119.00 m / 119.00 m x 21.80 m  x 5.25 m

Armament:
     8 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x4 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1911 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 611 lbs / 1 638 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 956 shp / 13 395 Kw = 21.51 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 260 tons

Complement:
   385 - 501

Cost:
   £0.691 million / $2.765 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 451 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 1 470 tons, 20.8 %
      - Belts: 727 tons, 10.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 293 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 412 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 729 tons, 10.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 120 tons, 44.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 071 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 135 lbs / 4 144 Kg = 24.6 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.46 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.38 ft / 6.82 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.11 ft / 5.52 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.93 ft / 4.85 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 863 Square feet or 1 752 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 598 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

   

[eltf177]

Does this include updated the hull with 1916 engines or retaining the originals?

[Jefgte]

Does this include updated the hull with 1916 engines or retaining the originals?

Original engines...

[eltf177]

Makes sense if you're trying to keep the cost down...

[Jefgte]

Makes sense if you're trying to keep the cost down...

That's right, I just change the main armament.
Same hull - same engines but new main guns.


Jef

[P3D]

What would the diameter of the quad 9" would be in comparison to the twin 12"?

[Jefgte]

Ext diam. of the barbette for the twin 12" is:
9.00m - 29' 6".
---------------------------------
For info, ext diam. of the barbettes for the twin 230mm on the AC Shinchi Roca is:
7.00m - 23'
---------------------------------

T4x230 drawing is in progress...



Jef

[Jefgte]

Here is the top view for T4x230 & T2x305

T2x305 ext barbette diam is 9m (for Peru & 8m for Argentina)

1m between 2 points.

I think that there are no mechanical problem to change from T2x305 to T4x230



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Jef

[Sachmle]

Q: Is it a true "QUAD" or a double twin, like the French ones?

[Jefgte]

A: It is a double twin -2M2- on the same barbette to form a T4.

The 2 mounts are separated with a bulkhead & the fire of the 2x2 mounts is independant.

So, there are no interferences in the shells trajectories.


Jef

[P3D]

That would make the turrets too cramped. You have to work two 23cm guns in a 4m wide space. With common sleeve it might be possible, but not with independent elevation.

[Jefgte]

...but not with independent elevation.

I agree, the 2 guns are mounted on the same cradle.

That is easier to reload, the hoist is on the middle of the 2 guns.


Jef