Next generation Esc Light Cruisers

[ledeper]

Lc 30-, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921

Displacement:
   6.599 t light; 6.842 t standard; 7.557 t normal; 8.129 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   515,28 ft / 508,53 ft x 62,34 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   157,06 m / 155,00 m x 19,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      9 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1.061 lbs / 481 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   340,88 ft / 103,90 m   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm            -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 57.910 shp / 43.201 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.287 tons

Complement:
   404 - 526

Cost:
   £1,582 million / $6,328 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 133 tons, 1,8 %
   Armour: 1.422 tons, 18,8 %
      - Belts: 508 tons, 6,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 146 tons, 1,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 735 tons, 9,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1.994 tons, 26,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.800 tons, 37,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 958 tons, 12,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8.287 lbs / 3.759 Kg = 80,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,447
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Stern:      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,94 ft / 4,86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 20.178 Square feet or 1.875 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 458 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,42
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Torpedoes 100 tns(5 reloads) or 100 mines
FC  100tns
L/R W/L 25 tns
Reserve 25 tns

[maddox]

In theory tripple mounts are turret and barbette.

[TexanCowboy]

Delaying the above ship for two years, and building something along the lines of a Omaha without the lower casemates, would be more logical...with the latter one having turrets and barbettes.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I'm not even happy with the rotating weight of twin 150mm mounts, much less triples. I think the rate of train would be a bit slow.

The Belt armor is sufficient for Destroyer sized rounds, but not cruisers, while the deck is if anything overarmored.

Are the 100mm & 40mm supposed to be AA?

[ledeper]

This better?(At least I don't have to make another drawing):

Lc 30-, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921

Displacement:
   6.805 t light; 7.026 t standard; 7.753 t normal; 8.334 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   515,28 ft / 508,53 ft x 62,34 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   157,06 m / 155,00 m x 19,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 752 lbs / 341 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm            -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 59.191 shp / 44.157 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.308 tons

Complement:
   413 - 537

Cost:
   £1,534 million / $6,134 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 94 tons, 1,2 %
   Armour: 1.731 tons, 22,3 %
      - Belts: 987 tons, 12,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 118 tons, 1,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 594 tons, 7,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 2.038 tons, 26,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.692 tons, 34,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 947 tons, 12,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9.064 lbs / 4.111 Kg = 88,0 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,459
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Stern:      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,94 ft / 4,86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 20.372 Square feet or 1.893 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,37
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Torpedoes 100 tns(5 reloads) or 100 mines
FC  100tns
L/R W/L 25 tns
Reserve 25 tns

[maddox]

Why diminish the main battery that much?  Also, single 150mm's could be an option on the sides.  Just replace the 100mm guns.

[ledeper]

Ohh,I've misunderstood your critique,I thougth that the problem was:
BB/AC Architecture - Main battery in turrets
1880: Main guns in twin turrets, secondaries in casemate
1890: Mixed main armament or AQY with double turrets+casemates
1904: All-big-gun ship with wing turrets, superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs), improved turret hydraulics, Torpedo Bulkheads
1906: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), triple turrets
1912: Quadruple turrets
1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns

Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns,but if its not that so here is the "new"version:

Lc 30-, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1921

Displacement:
   7.421 t light; 7.681 t standard; 8.445 t normal; 9.056 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   515,28 ft / 508,53 ft x 65,62 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   157,06 m / 155,00 m x 20,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      9 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1.061 lbs / 481 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   340,88 ft / 103,90 m   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 54.965 shp / 41.004 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.375 tons

Complement:
   439 - 572

Cost:
   £1,619 million / $6,476 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 133 tons, 1,6 %
   Armour: 2.094 tons, 24,8 %
      - Belts: 1.021 tons, 12,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 263 tons, 3,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 775 tons, 9,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1.893 tons, 22,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.051 tons, 36,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.024 tons, 12,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.917 lbs / 4.952 Kg = 106,0 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Stern:      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,94 ft / 4,86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 21.284 Square feet or 1.977 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,38
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Torpedoes 100 tns(5 reloads) or 100 mines
FC  100tns
L/R W/L 25 tns
Reserve 25 tns

[Kaiser Kirk]

25% bigger, 1knt slower. Very low BC with a fairly beamy hull. Rather see a longer hull and higher BC, perhaps less beam/draft to compensate. That may allow recapturing that knot.

Also, if you're building on a 1920 reasearchable tech, you can't complete research for 2 years, likely 2.5. So laydown date should be 1922, which will help reduce engine weight per shp and allow more speed.

[ledeper]

Maddox said:

In theory tripple mounts are turret and barbette.

and as I'm in doubt as if I have to research 1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns or not.
I had hoped that Maddox somehow could give some hints of whether or not this is ok

[Kaiser Kirk]

Maddox said:

In theory tripple mounts are turret and barbette.

and as I'm in doubt as if I have to research 1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns or not.
I had hoped that Maddox somehow could give some hints of whether or not this is ok

Hmm, hadn't occured to me that it might mean restrictions would expire in 1920. Shoot, I should be researching a twin turret already :(