Again a Cruiser design competition.

[maddox]

Minimum requirements.

5000 tons or less light displacement.
30 kts+ 
6000nm range @16kts
8 main guns in 4 twin fully armored mount and hoist . Minimum shell weight 25 kg.
Space and weight allotted for 6 24" 3 ton torpedo's

Good steadiness and seakeeping 1.0+ (preferably 1.22)

Armor, belt needs to cover all machinery and magazines, 10% higher than SS-standard. Armored deck.

Enough misc weight for the normal French amenities.FC, ASW, ERADe, and long range marconi.

[ctwaterman]

MN Neptune PC-1920 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   4,994 t light; 5,136 t standard; 5,714 t normal; 6,176 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   535.00 ft / 530.00 ft x 48.00 ft x 18.24 ft (normal load)
   163.07 m / 161.54 m x 14.63 m  x 5.56 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 504 lbs / 229 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.25" / 57 mm   406.00 ft / 123.75 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 46,177 shp / 34,448 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,040 tons

Complement:
   328 - 427

Cost:
   £1.072 million / $4.290 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 909 tons, 15.9 %
      - Belts: 514 tons, 9.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 72 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 296 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,615 tons, 28.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,107 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 720 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 5.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,899 lbs / 2,676 Kg = 94.4 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.431
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.50 ft / 6.55 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (65 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.52 ft / 4.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,987 Square feet or 1,485 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 385 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100T Fire Control
25T   Night fighting equipment and Spotlights
36T     12 x 24" Torpedoes
25T LR Wireless
25T Erade
25T Wine Cellar
64T Reserve

[Sachmle]

Neu Kiel Kaiserliche Werft offers the following. While we've so far been unable to get rid of that last ~500t we feel the cuts to performance to achieve this lower weight make this weight worth it.

Frankreich, Export Kleine Kruezer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   5,475 t light; 5,673 t standard; 6,439 t normal; 7,052 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 552.66 ft x 50.23 ft x 16.73 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.45 m x 15.31 m  x 5.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 579 lbs / 263 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210
   6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.36" / 60 mm   411.09 ft / 125.30 m   8.86 ft / 2.70 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.36" / 60 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 58,000 shp / 43,268 Kw = 31.13 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,379 tons

Complement:
   359 - 467

Cost:
   £1.269 million / $5.076 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 73 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 751 tons, 11.7 %
      - Belts: 348 tons, 5.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 41 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 332 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,028 tons, 31.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,447 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 964 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 176 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,481 lbs / 2,940 Kg = 96.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.15 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (61 %):      20.34 ft / 6.20 m (12.47 ft / 3.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Stern:      12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.53 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,250 Square feet or 1,696 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 395 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100t FC
25t eRAD
25t LR W/T
18t 6 3t 610cm Torpedoes
8t Reserve/DC/light sweep

[TexanCowboy]

Minime, French Minicruser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   5,376 t light; 5,591 t standard; 6,348 t normal; 6,954 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 52.30 ft x 17.20 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 15.94 m  x 5.24 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (3x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (1x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline amidships
      2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 744 lbs / 338 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes, 3 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.50" / 64 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 51,231 shp / 38,219 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,362 tons

Complement:
   355 - 462

Cost:
   £1.222 million / $4.889 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 93 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 795 tons, 12.5 %
      - Belts: 397 tons, 6.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 70 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 328 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,791 tons, 28.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,422 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 972 tons, 15.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,973 lbs / 2,709 Kg = 71.3 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.475
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.63 ft / 5.37 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,719 Square feet or 1,646 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 411 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100 tons FC
25 tons ASW
25 tons ERADe
25 tons Long Range Macaroni
50 tons Expierimental pesudo-DP weapondry
33 tons Torpedoes
10 tons Depth Charges
8 tons Crew Comfort


The ship is arranged with a 140 mm turret forward, with two turrets aft, one superfiring, to prevent major bow-heaviness. In addition, a 140 mm turret is arranged in the middle of the ship, giving a layout similar to the Fletcher (with B turret to be explained in a moment). The 105 mm guns forward have an expierimental "pesudo-dual purpose" capacity on them, to deal with high flying airplanes if needed, as well as to deal with surface ships. The guns can only be elevated to 50 degrees, but it's a start. (OOC: There are rules for DP guns in the rules, but there isn't a rule for a pesudo-DP gun, like the ones on the County class, and a majority of the 6'' guns on British ships. They weren't good at AA, but it was possible...that's what I'm shooting for. And it would look good, at least on paper.) The torpedoes are arranged in two quad mounting, one on each side of the turret, and two bow tubes and a stern tube, above the waterline, but simmed as below.

[P3D]

Demars, Firanji built PC laid down 1916

Displacement:
   5,500 t light; 5,719 t standard; 6,611 t normal; 7,325 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 48.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 14.63 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 90.00lbs / 40.82kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.47lbs / 4.75kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 762 lbs / 346 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   415.00 ft / 126.49 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 52,875 shp / 39,444 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,606 tons

Complement:
   366 - 476

Cost:
   £0.889 million / $3.555 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 89 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 886 tons, 13.4 %
      - Belts: 501 tons, 7.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 51 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 312 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 23 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,970 tons, 29.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,325 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,111 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,287 lbs / 2,852 Kg = 75.1 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (47 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.08 ft / 5.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 16,861 Square feet or 1,566 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 394 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[ctwaterman]

Hmmm all interesting designs for what is purely an anti Torpedo boat and anti destroyer escort.  The heavy Torpedo broadside is well just to make it dangerous to any ship on a dark or rainy day.....

These are all very heavy destroyers in effect built for escort duty I think the French also want to put Sonar and Depth Charge throwers on this ship which I think most of us have room to do....

Hmmmm maybe in 1920 I will put a single catapult and a float plane on my design as well because I really really think I will be building a few of these for my self no matter what.

Charles

[The Rock Doctor]

A private entry.  Given the modest speed requirement, I've opted for a shorter, deeper hull. 

I'm totally guessing on French AA guns.



Tabernacle, French cruiser, laid down 1920

Displacement:
   4,999 t light; 5,214 t standard; 5,945 t normal; 6,530 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   463.83 ft / 459.32 ft x 45.93 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   141.38 m / 140.00 m x 14.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 687 lbs / 311 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 53,000 shp / 39,538 Kw = 30.06 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,316 tons)

Complement:
   338 - 440

Cost:
   £1.197 million / $4.789 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 86 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 820 tons, 13.8 %
      - Belts: 487 tons, 8.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 56 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 256 tons, 4.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,853 tons, 31.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,018 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 946 tons, 15.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 221 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,756 lbs / 2,157 Kg = 56.8 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.501
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.67 ft / 6.30 m (12.80 ft / 3.90 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Stern:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.13 ft / 5.22 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,069 Square feet or 1,307 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 383 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Carthaginian]

And the lightest of the entries:

Anti-TB Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4,450 t light; 4,633 t standard; 5,441 t normal; 6,087 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   460.00 ft / 450.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   140.21 m / 137.16 m x 12.19 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (4x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1919 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 408 lbs / 185 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 325
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   370.00 ft / 112.78 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 50,500 shp / 37,673 Kw = 30.06 kts
   Range 6,060nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,454 tons

Complement:
   316 - 411

Cost:
   £1.015 million / $4.058 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 55 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 624 tons, 11.5 %
      - Belts: 355 tons, 6.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 27 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 228 tons, 4.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,882 tons, 34.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,770 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 991 tons, 18.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,025 lbs / 1,826 Kg = 75.1 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.529
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.03 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (35 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.23 ft / 5.25 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,318 Square feet or 1,144 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 339 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[damocles]

Demarche V., Holland Escort cruiser/torpedohruizer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   4,301 t light; 4,462 t standard; 5,136 t normal; 5,676 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   459.32 ft / 459.32 ft x 39.37 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   140.00 m / 140.00 m x 12.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
     8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 686 lbs / 311 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   375.88 ft / 114.57 m   9.22 ft / 2.81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47,157 shp / 35,179 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,214 tons

Complement:
   303 - 394

Cost:
   £1.072 million / $4.287 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 86 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 401 tons, 7.8 %
      - Belts: 138 tons, 2.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 32 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 224 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,649 tons, 32.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,766 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 835 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 7.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,517 lbs / 1,595 Kg = 42.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.80 ft / 7.56 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.78 ft / 4.81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.78 ft / 4.81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.78 ft / 4.81 m
      - Stern:      15.78 ft / 4.81 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.50 ft / 5.03 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,104 Square feet or 1,124 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 347 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

French suppled or Dutch equivalent equipment.
100 tons FC
25 tons sound gear/sonar
25 tons ERADe/radar
25 tons Long Range Macaroni/radio
25 tons crane.
50 tons aircraft catapult
50 tons Torpedoes
50 tons Depth Charges
50 tons Crew Comfort


-----------------------------------------------------------
400 tons misc.

The ship is fitted with an inclined belt. The torpedoes are the best French types available. The guns are the standard French heavy caliber "contra-torpellieur" type.

An experimental seaplane catapult on the fantail is fitted.  

[P3D]

The last two ships has too deep draft compared to the beam. Aim B:D  to be between  2.5 and 3 for a cruiser. 1" armor would only stop destroyer shells, regardless of inclination.

[Carthaginian]

Aim B:D  to be between  2.5 and 3 for a cruiser.

Mighty good piece of advice- I'll not only use it from now on, but I suggest that it be added to our 'Gentleman's Design Rules.'

[ctwaterman]

I know I added 2" to the top of the suggested armor belt on my design so that I could afford to incline it at about 10 Degree's for a slight gain.   Plus to bring it up to the armored deck.

I tried to use all the little rules of thumb people have given me over the years.  It seems to work about half the time. Half the time I get a ship I am happy with the other half it rolls over and sinks....

Charles

[TexanCowboy]

I'd doubt that an inclined belt is a good idea with just 9 feet of space...you lose coverage, a bunch of it, while gaining just tad bit of extra armour strength.

[maddox]

I see a lot of good features.

Some people kept in mind the French love for the 140mm . 
If that gun is used on a light cruiser, it's always mount and hoist. Armored like any other of those. 2" face, 1" rest above deck and 3" below. Twin or Single. (somewere in France a factory is cranking out those 140mm with heavy 42 kg shells assembly line style)

But French shipbuilders realise that there is a huge gap between the undeveloped 1905 105mm L45 gun and the truebred 140mm L55. Therefore, the Italian 127mm and the German 130mm guns are acceptable. Maybe not for this new Cruiser Class, what won't be a Demarce, but at least for the new destroyers.

The principal French AA gun is the single 37mm , nothing bigger is used, but plans are being developed to refit the older 70mm QF guns to DP purposes, thanks to the Rift war lessons.

Torpedo's will be the brandnew 24" monsters. No reloads, and the more tubes, the merrier.

But one thing I need to stress,  range has to be 6000nm @16kts, to make a fair comparisation.


I gave it a whirl myself, but ain't to happy with it. Don't know why , but still..

Charlotte, French  Glorious destroyer destroyer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   5.000 t light; 5.169 t standard; 5.915 t normal; 6.512 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,74 ft / 554,46 ft x 49,21 ft x 13,12 ft (normal load)
   170,00 m / 169,00 m x 15,00 m  x 4,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 55,12lbs / 25,00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 450 lbs / 204 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,50" / 64 mm   387,15 ft / 118,00 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 0,75" / 19 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 49.753 shp / 37.116 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.343 tons

Complement:
   336 - 438

Cost:
   £1,116 million / $4,463 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 64 tons, 1,1%
   Armour: 708 tons, 12,0%
      - Belts: 396 tons, 6,7%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 41 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 271 tons, 4,6%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1.740 tons, 29,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.299 tons, 38,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 915 tons, 15,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 3,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7.303 lbs / 3.312 Kg = 116,8 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 12,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,578
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,59 ft / 7,80 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (10%):   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Stern:      16,73 ft / 5,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,44 ft / 5,32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136,5%
   Waterplane Area: 19.552 Square feet or 1.816 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 368 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100 ton cruiser FC
25 ton ERADe
25 ton torpedo's
25 ton ASW gear
10 ton night fighting gear
10 ton wine cellar/crew comfort

[Jefgte]

Here is the NUS Study

220t misc weight could be use as your convenance.
With the classic CL equipement, NUS propose the spotting /scouting with 2 or 3 seaplanes.
in the middle of the ship or minelayer job.

CL5000t, France Seaplane Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   5 000 t light; 5 210 t standard; 5 651 t normal; 6 004 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492.13 ft / 492.13 ft x 49.21 ft x 16.87 ft (normal load)
   150.00 m / 150.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 872 lbs / 396 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   377.30 ft / 115.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 48 934 shp / 36 505 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 794 tons

Complement:
   325 - 423

Cost:
   £1.196 million / $4.785 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 109 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 775 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 445 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 290 tons, 5.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 711 tons, 30.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 185 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 652 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 007 lbs / 2 271 Kg = 46.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.89 ft / 5.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 15 906 Square feet or 1 478 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 406 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.49
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform