Demarce IV's

[P3D]

Naval Command, Djibouti
Reports of the battle at the Rift entrance with the NS fleet are being analyzed, reworked, rehashed and redone. Bureaucratic additions, pricetags and recommendations fly around before condensing into a report to Paris.

"Omar, are you sure we want to sell the Demarce IV's?"

"Yes, I'm sure, this graph shows clearly that the cost of these ships is abnormal high compared to the losses they caused to the enemy. it seems we could do cheaper and better with unarmed ships of the same size and speed with underwater armor alone. Mobile torpedo nets as it springs to mind."

"That's ridicolous, no politician would allow that. Nor would Admiral Geon. But yes, your graph shows that the D IV's don't mix well in our battleline. To big to be expendable, to weak to be in the battleline itself and to large and unwieldy to nimbly dodge torpedo's. Maybe good ships for Papeete. big enough to be scary, fast enough to get around, and with range to match the pacific."

"Whatever. I recommend to sell them. The resources are better spend in more Ocitanies."

Later

A book is on the table, and Omar is writing down a string of words in the form of a telegram. the language used, Arabic, but expressed in Roman letter to match the French telegraph system.The day after this telegram is send from a selected office, where nobody can read Romanised Arabic.

After bouncing around in the French telegraph network, the message is delivered at the Firenj Embassy in Paris. And from there, the message floats to Firenj.


Firenj City, Burj Al-Hadji (Ministry of the Navy)

Top floor, Office of the minister, Jaber Al-Taha Al-Saad

"Admiral Nasir, are these ships that bad, that the French do not want them, but our Navy does?"

"The ships won't fit in their Navy. The desire for powerful cruisers met some cost-cutting measures. The gun mount housings are too cramped, as two people required manhandling the heavy shells for the 8" guns. As a result, the firing cycle of these guns is not much shorter than capital ships with larger guns. Their inadequate maneuverability could be ascribed to their extreme draught, which also make them very vulnerable to torpedo hits. Possibly a pet design from a politically influentian industrialist. Instead of using them against other protected cruisers as open seas scouts, they were pressed into service as anti-destroyer screens, in coastal waters, for lack of more usable ships."

"How can we utilize them usefully?"

"Right now, I could suggest to use them for commerce raiding, they are faster and longer ranged than our new fast cruisers, the Demarce IVs are faster than most armored cruisers. Also faster than most Swiss ships, save a few of their large destroyers. The low rate of fire won't be that big of a disadvantage at longer ranges. This would allow us to close down most trade activity in [East] Australia."

"But they would be vulnerable were they encounter any massed torpedo attacks, won't they?"

"They should not get into a situation when they could not run from a massed torpedo attack?"

"These ships were exposed to such attack as they could not freely maneuver, their task was to protect larger ships. The Swiss, on the other hand, are willing to expend torpedoes on screening vessels, which we will have to consider in the future. Bu were the current rate of attrition continue, the Swiss won't have any destroyers left by the end of this year."

"What modifications would be necessary, were we to acquire them?"

"They might need a Fire Control update, but we are not familiar with the current French system. We have no experience with this gun caliber either, the shells might be too heavy, we would have to develop lighter shells to easier loading - like the similar effort done on the 14cm guns."

"It is a certainty that other nations, more favoured in Paris, will also be interested in buying the ships. I think time is essential, we might be able to grab the ships before anyone else could, if we act quickly. I will bring it up when I meet my brother [the emir]."

Paris, next week

"Ah minister Capet, you asked for a tad of information according to my secretary."

"Yes minister Lebrun. I got an equiry from our embassy in Burj Thrawn, Firenj. About the sale of the Demarce IV cruisers."

"How do they know that? We didn't get to the official declaration yet.  Who told you?"

"I wasn't told anything, just a diplomatical telegram asking about the sale,and how to conduct trade."

"'I'll tell you as soon we are sure about this. can we talk about this later on, but, the information should go any further."


[French events by Maddox]

[maddox]

Ah, Premier Galpoux, what a coïncidence I meet you here.

Broadly smiling Minister Capet approaches Galpoux at their common roost, Hotel Napoleon.
Coincidence, yeah right. When in France, and not in the office, you're here. Most of the time accompanied by a lovely lady of ancient name. By lack of companion, I smell work.

Very perceptive Premier. it's about our navy I want to talk to you.

That floating ,expensive piece of scrap you mean. We got our ass handed by a bunch of shellshocked, low on ammo, fuel and supplies New Swiss ships.

About that navy, yes. It seems we're going to sell that junkyard, and my Firenj contacts have indicated a keen interest in the Demarce IV's.

M*rd*, Minister Capet. I don't know how you, nor the Firenjians know. But for the time being keep it silent. But yes, we're going to sell some ships. Ships that don't fit in the navy. It's just a problem of to whom, and what ships.

(in the background, a small non descript guy leaves as soon this conversation goes over to other subjects)

[maddox]

Rockies contribution, with some small changes..

Meanwhile, in Cartagena...

The bell rang and the horses erupted from the gate to the cheers of thousands.  Atop the track, in the Presidential Suite, Rey Alizandro and Alexander Jardan watched the initial legs in silence; the French envoy then noted, "Filled with Hope is slow today; a shame, too, as I've got ten bolivars on her."

"Really?  On that old thing?", Rey asked, aghast.

"She's in excellent shape despite her age", Jardan replied.  "She responds well to Chavo whenever he's riding her."

Rey lifted his field glasses to have a closer look at the horse and rider.  "That's not Chavo", he said.

"I feared that you would say so", Jardan said.  "Strange, as he was supposed to be riding her today.  Ah, well.  Ten bolivars wasted, it seems.  Kingdom Come appears to have an insurmountable lead now."

"I think so", Rey said.  "Which is lovely, as I have a five on her."

"If I didn't know better, I'd suggest that you had arranged for Chavo not to ride this afternoon", Jardan remarked.

"But you do know better - I can't be bothered to micro-manage the races to my benefit", Rey replied.

"Very true", Jardan agreed, "Especially when your pick runs that well on her own.  Ha - speaking of old, slow horses, have I told you about the latest flap in Paris?"

"I don't believe so", Rey said, curious to see if it would have anything to do with horses.  The old Frenchman, while a valued friend and diplomat, was starting to show signs of senility. Or is it that his late wife isn't around to keep her husband straight? Behind every succesfull leader, there is a strong woman.

"The Firanjis found out that we're going to be getting rid of the Demarce Fours before anything had been announced privately.  In fact, Minister Capet got the news from the Firenj envoy, and he told Premier Galpoux!", Jardan chortled.
Not especially sure what a Demarce Four was, Rey asked, "Capet's back in Paris?  I think he was trying to get elected god-emperor of the Ukraine or thereabouts."

"I thought so too, but I guess that must be over with by now", Jardan remarked.  "Still - imagine the look on Galpoux's face.  He hates when his announcements get pre-empted."

"I can imagine", Rey agreed.  "So why is he taking this, er, step?"

"Parliament is convinced they're all useless because the Swiss sank some of them in the Rift Sea. So Premier Galpoux is appeasing his government after the most warntorn 5 years of France in the 20th century", Jardan replied.

"Right, right", Rey replied, pleased to know that they were probably talking about ships.  "How old are they?"

"The Demarces?  Oh, just a few years, really.  I imagine somebody could make good use of them."

"I'm curious to see if we'll be made aware of the move", Rey said.

"I'll see if that will be the case", Jardan agreed.  "Here we go, fourth race..."

[snip]

Aidan Gallagher stepped back inside his office. After a long day of tours about Paris and the surrounding countryside, he only had a few scraps of paperwork to finish before he could head home and relax for the night. Taking his jacket off, he noticed the envelope sitting on his desk. "Katie, did anyone come by and drop off any communications?" His secretary, a stunning redhead named Katie, called back, "Nothing today sir, were you expecting something?" "No, no not at all, figured I would ask." Aidan moved over to the desk and grabbed the envelope. Checking it over, he saw no indicators of were it could have come from. The last time this happened, the results had been very interesting. Checking to see that Katie was preoccupied with work, he opened the envelope, pulling out the top sheet of paper. He began to read...

Thought this information would be of interest to you. They might be a bit big for your needs but getting experience in negotiating and maybe making some new friends would not be a bad idea. Besides you could get lucky, and we all know you could use more ships.

A friend

Aidan pulled out the remaining papers. His eyes widened slightly as he read. "Katie," he called "get me Captain McDermott, get him up here as quick as you can" "Yes sir, can I tell him what you need?" "Just tell him to get up here, NOW!"

Captain Teague McDermott, the highest ranking member of the Irish Navy in the ambassadorial mission to France, was currently in his office. Idly looking over some papers, he to was ready for the end of the day. The clicking of heals reached his ears much quicker than the wearer, giving him plenty of time to move any sensitive material out of sight. The ambassador's secretary appeared in is door, however he only had a moment to look her over before she said "Come with me" and started down the hall again.

Aidan was pacing his office when Teague walked in. "Close the door" Aidan said moving to grab the papers from the envelope. "Katie said you wanted to see me sir?" Teague asked "She didn't say why." "This, this is why." Aidan said as he handed over the papers. Teague looked them over. "So what do you think? Legitimate?" Aidan asked. "Seams like it" Teague's face showed he was thinking hard. "Do you know anyone in the French Navy that could confirm or deny this?" Aidan asked. "It seems a little sensitive for me to bring up in diplomatic channels, being new here and all." Teague gave the papers another glance then replied, "I will follow up on this, can I keep the papers?" Aidan nodded. Teague turned to leave. "As soon as I know, you will sir." Then he left. Aidan slumped down into his chair, still holding the cover letter, thinking he might need some exter help relaxing now.

The next day found Teague sitting outside the French Navy's offices in Paris. He had with him two dishes from a vendor down the street. He had to wait in line for quite some time, so he felt good in trying them out, but he had not taken a bite yet. "Captain McDermont, always a pleasure to see you" A French naval officer has joined Teague on the steps. "You said you had something of interest for me?" "Yes, that I do" Teague handed the man one of the dishes. "but first let us eat." "I am sorry captain, I have a lunch meeting in about half an hour" The officer said looking longingly at the dishes of food. "Not a problem then, this is what i called about." Teague handed the officer the papers. After quickly reading them, the officer looked at Teague, with an expression that was a blend of curiosity and rage. "How did you get this?" Teague expected spit to start flying from the Frenchman's mouth "Nobody is to know about this!" "So I take it these are true then?" Teauge said gesturing at the papers. "Yes, yes they are. How did you come about this?" The officer had calmed down somewhat. "Not your concern, the only important thing is that I have the information, and I want in on the dealing." The Frenchman began to fume again. "Or I could always arrange for this to be released publicly..." Teague let the words trail off. "Fine fine fine. Have it your way, damn Irishman." the officer spat. "I will keep you, and you only up to date on the issue. And if I ever find out how you got this information, I will make that man pay! Now if you will excuse me, I am late for a meeting." The officer handed the papers back to Teague and stormed off, swearing so loudly as to make several nearby ladies blush different shades of red. Teague chuckled to himself. "Now for lunch, if only I had some company." Teague said, picking up the two dishes and starting to walk in the direction of a rather attractive french woman sitting alone on a bench a sort distance off.

[Desertfox]

Swiss Naval HQ, French Division

"Grapevine has it that the French want to sell of the Demarce IVs."

"The IVs? Whoever told you that is pulling your leg. The French would be crazy to sell those ships off. Thirty-one knots and eight inch guns, those ships don't grow on trees. They completely outclass the Sydneys and all the remaining 8" cruisers we have. The Interceptors can handle them but we only have two of those. Pity we didn't sink more of them off Dijibouti. Nah, its probably disinformation to root out some of our spies."

[TexanCowboy]

October 1919
Kiev, Ukraine

Minister Capet and empress Flowranis had returned to Kiev. Ostensibly, their purpose was to return to continue waiting....and waiting....and waiting some more, for the voting process to decide who would be the next King, or Queen, as the cause may be, of Ukraine would be.
During these waiting days, the young empress and the experienced statesman had some time to talk, and talk they did. Minister Capet is a not ungifted orator, and his intricate knowledge of international politics, something he's handling for decades now, gives him a wellspring of knowledge and stories to entertain Empress Flowranis.

They meet at the Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant, in the centre of Kiev. As the course of the dinner went on Flowranis brought the conversation to something she adores, flying and aircraft, and that gets to the Rift war, were aircraft seem to rule superiour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Eh...the rift war is having serious concequences on our naval forces, not only are aircraft superior scouts, but it seems that mid sized cruisers are rather torpedo bait than any worty addition to the battlefleet. They couldn't stop the new Swiss fleet from fleeing after their botched attacks on Djibouti."

"Oh, France sees the Great Swiss Escape as a second attack on Djibouti? Yes, my advisors , told me that about a week ago," she said. "Only it was called something else, like an undeclared war action, or even the kicking of a downed kid. The Italians and the Germans could have handled it on their own. Especialy with the Dutch and Ottomans backstabbing Oman and New Swiss at the same time. But I believe in your sincerity, your military seems to have other goals than the advancement of France."

Yes, my dear Flowranis,it seems Parliament had the same idea and has pushed to limit the power of the military. The first step is to diminish the fleet. The Djibouti debacle is a good starting point, and the start of that is about the sale of ships we're about to have."

Blinking her eyes, fluttering eyelashes unleashed butterflies in Capets belly.

"Apparently the Naval Ministry decided that, since so many of them were sunk, that the Demarce IIIs, IVs, and Dantons are for sale....knowing that you already have a Danton in your navy, that might be useful.
But this isn't talk for a gentle evening like this. Did I tell you how the first meeting ...."


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The empress's guards see how the 2 have a nice evening, and when both go their way, the galant minister giving a gentle hand-kiss to the offered Imperial hand.


OOC: Random Word of the Day: Passionfruit. That is all.

[damocles]

(Note that the operations of the NRDN in TULIP were detected by the French and the Romanian intelligence services but that the actions were not detected by anyone else. In other words this story was created with permission from TexasCowboy and Maddox and is used with their permissions. Other parties are not privy to the details of TULIP or the events that precede and follow from it except insofar as it concerns further Dutch actions in PMs I sent them. D.)    

Nicholas van Rijn reads his latest intelligence brief.
  As part of Operation Tulip in September, the NRDN worked out a plan to eavesdrop on some of the favorite watering holes and eateries for the diplomats and dignitaries that gathered in Kiev for the pending Ukrainian elections.
  van Rijn personally approved it, even though he knew that its chance of success was minimal.

MVB Agent 222 report  #342.

1. Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant target was identified and staked out as a popular rendezvous spot for meetings of dignitaries invited to observe the Ukraine election.
2. Efforts to install NRDN listening horns in the ceiling of the Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant were successful. (We underbid on the electrification contract.)
3. Stenographer pool was stationed in the building adjacent to record any passing conversation that was picked up by the listening horns.
4. The conversations our listeners recorded after sifting yielded the following results;
-garbled conversations about the Rift War among unidentified diplomats and dignitaries.
-special private meeting mentioned between Minister Capet on (date blanked out for security reasons).. and unknown personage  

Actions taken on basis (4)

1. Honey trapped chief waiter of Osteria Pantagruel Restaurant as wedge to insert our own "waiter" and "wine steward" (Agents # 245 and # 033).
2. The agents were able to serve information targets identified as Queen Flowranis of Romania and Minister Capet of France, but not able to record much of their conversation besides these points:
-Minister Capet suggested that the French government would downsize its naval armed forces by selling off its Class II pantserkruizers of the Demache classes namely to interested states that would buy said ships. Agent # 245 was unable to determine why this was openly said in his presence.
-The Romanian ruler, Flowanis, after Minister Capet called for wine later, specifically mentioned within earshot of agent # 033 that the French action in the Rift War was an undeclared war action.
3. The information gathered, this agent # 222 concludes, was deliberately pigeon dropped by the two information targets at the dinner to specifically reach the NRDN, and hence the Dutch MVB, as well as the Romanian government secret services. The clear intent by France and Romania to pass this information to us is unknown.

    Nicholas van Rijn knows exactly why the information is so passed.... "Anders! Get your sorry carcass in here!" Anders looking at the midnight clock striking at the Turinstad, roars back: "What the devil do you want? The Romanian ambassador is in my office asking about our damaged ships again, and I'm trying to make a sale!"  
    "How did they find out about our ships? Never mind." van Rijn tugs his chin. "I need you to do two things, stall the Romanians, since we need every hull we have, damaged or not."
    "Well, if you hadn't set in motion Fleet Problems IV, V and VI, we would not be in this mess, would we and I could sell that ship they want?" Anders said.
    "Shut your mouth, fool." van Rijn said: "The French are selling their own ships, their 6000k and 8000k kruizers, I think. We need to get some of those ships for the Irish, some for the Middle Kingdom, and some for our other allies so we can end those Fleet Problems and restore the great power balance."
    "Then you need Guntar Hertzog, but since he is in the Middle Kingdom where you so stupidly sent him, we'll send Helga Jonstel as omsbudwoman instead. SHE can represent us to Meister Lebrun, the French defense minister, and arrange a little negotiation here." Wellsen suggests.
    "That might work. At least we'll find out in detail what's up with the French desire to sell ships?" van Rijn says.
    "We need some input as to whether the money is worth the product." Wellsen says. "Of course with your pet admiral gone..."
    "Shut up, Wellsen." van Rijn states flatly.
 
 
====================================================
    Helga Jonstel was a "Bavarian" by birth, but a KoN diplomat by her documents. Monsieur Lebrun was not certain what and why she went to the considerable efforts to meet him, but out of curiosity...
    Monsieur Lebrun steeples his handsand stares at the woman who sits so calm across the little table from him. at the outdoor coffee shop, just 300 meters south of the Eiffel Tower. "Clever little lady, aren't you? No eavesdroppers, no way for anyone else to overhear our conversation, and... Helga Jonstel interrupts: "No accidents for us either, Monsieur. We are covered." She pets a large ferocious Manx that purrs in her lap as she says this and she smiles a thin smile. Monsieur Lebrun feels the cold emanate from her: "You went to a lot of trouble to meet me, Madam. Why did you want to meet me?"
   Jonstel states a plain fact: "There is a rumor that Glorious France wants to sell some cruisers. I would like to buy a few for some of my clients."
   Monsieur Grange sips his Turkish coffee. "Where would a lovely lady, such as yourself, get the money for such baubles, and who would be the clients to buy and need such lethal toys?"
   Jonstel eyes narrow. The hard negotiation was about to begin...  
==============================================================

Off Oman...

   BAROOM!  
   Admiral Schoepen watches the eight shell broadside arc into the Omani coast. Some pirates that continued to harass shipping were located at Khalul. The operative word was WERE. The bombardment put an end to them rather quickly, but as the three frigates hammered the harbor, Admiral Schorpen had another problem.    

#2134 Inquiry from the RFMA:
To kommandamt TF 11
Need your evaluation of the Demarche class kruizers for possible Dutch and Allied service.
What weaknesses?
What modifications necessary?

   Admiral Schoepen dictates his answer to his flag secretary as the frigate jumps from the recoil of her 38s.

#2134 Reply to the RFMA:  
From kommandamt TF 11
Assessemt:
 Dermarche III
 Armament and fire control is not up to Dutch specifications. This Kruizer would need to be re-barreled to 15 cm triples for Dutch service. Refits of Dutch fire control and radar as well as sonar would be required. However, as gift ships to the Middle Kingdom, these would be valuable additions to an allied fleet, as the MKN uses these existing caliber weapons. The only changes required would be the torpedoes and the AAA. Chief critique is that they are slow and deep drafted for Europe. Asian service area is recommended.
 Demarche IIIB  
 Recommend procurement for KM if possible: Armament and fire control is not up to Dutch specifications. This Kruizer would need to be re-barreled to 12.5 cm twins for Dutch service. Need for for Ditch HW torpedoes if possible. Refits of Dutch fire control and radar as well as sonar would be required. However, as gift ships to the Irish, Indochinese, Firanj, and the Middle Kingdom, these would be valuable additions to an allied fleet, as the allies use many these ships' existing French caliber weapons. The changes required for KM service would be the torpedoes, guns. and the AAA. Chief critique is deep draft for Europe, therefore Asian service recommended.  
 Demarche IV.
 Recommend procurement if possible. Class was mis-armed and misused. Modifications are to re-barrel to 20.5 cm twin or 15 cm triples and land the useless CSA torpedoes. Replace with HW tubes and replace sensor outfit with Dutch fire control and sensors. Possible gift ships to our allied navies.

   Admiral Schoepen orders that message sent in code to the relay ship for retransmission to Den Hague. He then returns to swatting Omani gnats with his sledgehammers. Sooner or later, that sultan in Muscat, would get the message...
  There was also that letter to Admiral Goen to write.

[ctwaterman]

Imperial Marina Offices of Planning and Construction:

Well our French Allies appear to dislike their Demarce IV cruisers, and they have already been approached by several nations to purchase them.  It appears there is an opportunity to acquire replacement Armored Cruisers for three Heavy Cruisers we have lost in the New Zion war?  The French ships are relatively new can stand to be expanded and upgraded but were simply caught in a situation where they had to hold their ground to protect a slower battle line in a tacticaly bad situation.   The cruisers we are seeking to replace were sunk in the same battle.   If the French want to sell modern ships we need to try and buy them.

We will have to see about attending what appears to be an auction attended by a large number of nations.  This does not make the likelihood of a successful offer very likely but trying never hurt.  We will have to play some political cards but hopefully we can purchase some or all of the remaining Demarce IV cruisers.

[The Rock Doctor]

How many of these ships are there, anyway?

[miketr]

There were 6 before the war and 1 for sure was lost so at least 4?  Perhaps as many as 5?

WAG

[damocles]

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4254.msg47614#msg47614

There are four.

D.

[Sachmle]

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4254.msg47614#msg47614

There are four.

D.

I count 6 before losses, so Mike's WAG of 4-5 is pretty good.

1st Scouting Squadron [1st SC] - Brest
Napoleon the Great
2 x Demarce IV
Temporary posted at Blantyre
2 x Demarce IV
2nd Scouting Squadron [2nd SC] - Djibouti
Chevallier Rouge, Glore II
2 x Demarce IV

[damocles]

OOC-that is a great WAG.

Also OOC.

Absolutely brilliant guess, but I want to make clear, that the Dutch ATM do not exactly know for what they negotiate, unlike the other bidders. They think the French maybe are selling Demarce cruisers. They just don't know which class or how many. If it is the block of four Demarce IVs, they will find that out with their Jonstel/Lebrun contact as they negotiate.  

IC, the van Rijn government is following an intelligence  lead. Hence the Schoepen radiograms.      

[maddox]

YES, YES, you can send the invitations.
Minister Capet. Your ministry is the biggest sieve of secrets in my government. This is the last time I did share any sensitive information with you that doesn't concern the function of your departement.

Invations to
Firenj
Ireland
Romania 
Gran Colombia
The Netherlands
Italia
Confederated States of America
United Norman Kingdom

"A modern cruiser fleet"

Hereby are the adressed countries invited to join a conference on the disposition of
4 Demarce III and 4 Demarce IV cruisers.
Conference starts 11 november 1919, Versailles Palace."

[ctwaterman]

OOC:  Ouch-  Budget overruns spirialing out of control.....

Charles