Egyptian Naval Research and Development

[Darman]

If we dropped it down to 3-4 3.5" guns might that be a little better? 

3 guns: 2 forward with one superfiring, one gun aft
4 guns: 1 forward, 1 aft, 2 wing. 

[Sachmle]

I'd say 3, aXy with the TT centerline between the stacks and X mount.

[TexanCowboy]

Eh....I could buy five, with the superfiring....the goal was to make a modification of the Paudling.

[Darman]

THIS should be the final product...

DD by Committee, Egyptian/Romanian Destroyer laid down 1919 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   749 t light; 777 t standard; 860 t normal; 926 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   293.09 ft / 290.00 ft x 26.00 ft x 9.50 ft (normal load)
   89.33 m / 88.39 m x 7.92 m  x 2.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 21.44lbs / 9.73kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 90 lbs / 41 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 215
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 22,759 shp / 16,978 Kw = 31.50 kts
   Range 2,500nm at 13.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 149 tons

Complement:
   79 - 103

Cost:
   £0.221 million / $0.883 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1.3 %
   Machinery: 468 tons, 54.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 263 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 111 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     240 lbs / 109 Kg = 11.2 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.50 ft / 5.33 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.30 ft / 3.44 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.35 ft / 3.76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,701 Square feet or 437 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 126 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.26
      - Overall: 0.58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

6 tons- torpedoes

[Darman]

My first attempt at a minelayer.  And is there anything I need to add to make it a minsweeper as well as a minelayer? 

Desperado, Egypt Minelayer laid down 1921 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   933 t light; 958 t standard; 1,013 t normal; 1,056 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 7.62 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 58 lbs / 26 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,312 shp / 13,661 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons

Complement:
   89 - 116

Cost:
   £0.269 million / $1.077 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 479 tons, 47.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 247 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 7.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 19.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     247 lbs / 112 Kg = 18.3 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.05 ft / 5.81 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Stern:      12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.67 ft / 3.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,113 Square feet or 475 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.47
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

200t = 200 mines

[The Rock Doctor]

You'd want to allocate 25 or 50 t for sweeping stuff. 

Note that this vessel needs to have its cross-sectional hull strength at least 0.50...

[Darman]

I can fix that.  Thought it was more than that (maybe before I made a last second change in something?).  I'm definitely adding sweeping capabilities, I need to be able to clear minefields as well after all. 

[Darman]

Desperado, Egypt Minelayer laid down 1921 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   933 t light; 958 t standard; 1,013 t normal; 1,056 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   300.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   91.44 m / 91.44 m x 7.62 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 58 lbs / 26 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 18,312 shp / 13,661 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 97 tons

Complement:
   89 - 116

Cost:
   £0.273 million / $1.093 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 490 tons, 48.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 285 tons, 28.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 7.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 14.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     295 lbs / 134 Kg = 21.9 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.05 ft / 5.81 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Stern:      12.12 ft / 3.69 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.67 ft / 3.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,113 Square feet or 475 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.55
      - Longitudinal: 2.12
      - Overall: 0.62
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100t = 100 mines and minelaying gear
50t= minesweeping gear

[TexanCowboy]

You have 1,000 ton destroyer tech?

[Darman]

No, its not built to DD/TB standards (I don't think).  I actually was looking at a Royal Navy minelayer (the class begins with an A) from WW2 that displaced something around 2,500 tons.  So that is how I started then it ended up getting smaller. 

[TexanCowboy]

If it's got a overall strength of under 1.00, it is considered to be built to destroyer standards, for the purposes of this sim.

[Darman]

Alright then.  I can try and fix that. 
I found the minelayer I was trying to design this after... I sorta just took the dimensions and ran with them and ended up altering them to make the ships a bit smaller. 

[Darman]

I redid the design a bit. 

Abigail, Egypt Mine Warfare Vessel laid down 1921 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   2,681 t light; 2,768 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 4,086 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   422.06 ft / 418.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   128.64 m / 127.41 m x 12.19 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1921 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 183 lbs / 83 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   271.70 ft / 82.81 m   7.59 ft / 2.31 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   146.28 ft / 44.59 m   7.59 ft / 2.31 m
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   271.70 ft / 82.81 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   271.70 ft / 82.81 m   11.37 ft / 3.47 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 41,620 shp / 31,049 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 30.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,318 tons

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.288 million / $1.150 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 23 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 634 tons, 18.1 %
      - Belts: 389 tons, 11.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 229 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,624 tons, 46.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 819 tons, 23.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 11.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,219 lbs / 10,532 Kg = 725.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 10.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.611
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Stern:      14.31 ft / 4.36 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.39 ft / 5.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 38.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,350 Square feet or 1,147 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 288 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 371 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.22
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 1.29
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

150t= 150 mines
50t= minesweeping gear
200t= 100 passenger/cargo compartment

[snip]

Might want to check the machinery...

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 41,620 shp / 31,049 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 30.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,318 tons

Also, DP guns have yet to make an appearance. Other than that, why are the 3 inch guns even there if you have a main battery of 4 inch.

[Carthaginian]

For a ship with 4" main guns, having a 3" gun is a moot point.
Even after DP guns show up, you should just mount one or the other.

Replace the 3" guns with a pair of twin torp mounts and some 30-40mm AAA.