Egyptian Naval Research and Development

[TexanCowboy]

Ah!!!!

5.5'' guns are not what you want to be putting on that hull. You would barely be able to hit anything from such a small platform, with all the hull motion. Of course, that's just my general, biased opinion....

Cross-Sectional is low.

Honestly, if you have only 1905 engines, don't worry about it. Just wait until you get better engines, IMHO, because the ones you have right now are not very good for destroyers.

[snip]

Completely in agreement with Tex on this one, 5.5's are way to big for that hull. Maybe a solution would be to increase the number of 3.5's if you looking to upgun that design a bit.

[Darman]

Too big?  I was looking for something to kill another destroyer or to do some damage to the light guns and outworks on a larger ship as the destroyer drives home its torpedo attack.  And while its turning away from the attack (both guns trained on target) and while retreating.  

[snip]

Well if your looking for something that can use torps effectively, you need more than a single duel or two single tubes. We had quite the discussion on this in dealing with one of the ships Im working on currently (one of the SS reports is posted earlier, its one revision out of date) Can you use triple launchers? With the guns, something can be said for being able to put more shells on target then just a few larger ones. Like I said, a greater number of the 3.5's could work. I only have 4" guns for my DD(ish) ships so Im sort of in the same boat.

[TexanCowboy]

If you want to go any bigger, I'd go with the 4'' guns you have on your newest, 1,000 ton destroyers.

[snip]

@Tex it looks like all the DD's he has right now are all foreign builds. I think those 4 inch guns are confederate, not domestic Egyptian guns.

@Mods and ciders: Do you guys have a list of the Egyptian naval guns, the list in there forum is only one gun.

[maddox]

The French engineers at the port of Alexandria have , by accident, some plans for the most modern DD's available.

Ali, Egytian Destroyer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 799 t standard; 901 t normal; 983 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   331,36 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,25 ft x 7,87 ft (normal load)
   101,00 m / 100,00 m x 8,00 m  x 2,40 m

Armament:
     4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 371 lbs / 168 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18.017 shp / 13.441 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 3.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 184 tons

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0,276 million / $1,103 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 6 tons, 0,7%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 394 tons, 43,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 267 tons, 29,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 151 tons, 16,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     232 lbs / 105 Kg = 2,8 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 11,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,465
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   12,14 ft / 3,70 m
      - Mid (50%):      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,73 ft / 3,27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70,5%
   Waterplane Area: 5.563 Square feet or 517 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 52%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 129 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,01
      - Overall: 0,54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

"What's that, a wave?"
"Oh, not again."
*Snap*
*Ghug-ghug-ghug-ghug*

LB of 12.5:1 is just a tad bit over the top.

[snip]

That is a much bigger hull then what Darman has right now. I think ether the size needs to go up or the ships purpose needs to be looked at again.

[maddox]

I shouldn't have taken the too slender Tigre b's as template. (anyone a reason why I lost 7 at Djibouti, and not leopards?)

Ali, Egyptian Destroyer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 799 t standard; 900 t normal; 981 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   331,36 ft / 328,08 ft x 27,89 ft x 8,53 ft (normal load)
   101,00 m / 100,00 m x 8,50 m  x 2,60 m

Armament:
      4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 371 lbs / 168 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17.504 shp / 13.058 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 3.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 183 tons

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0,274 million / $1,097 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 4,7%
   Armour: 6 tons, 0,7%
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 390 tons, 43,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 272 tons, 30,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 16,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     239 lbs / 108 Kg = 2,9 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 10,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,404
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   12,14 ft / 3,70 m
      - Mid (50%):      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,73 ft / 3,27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75,5%
   Waterplane Area: 5.644 Square feet or 524 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 53%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 134 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,01
      - Overall: 0,53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[P3D]

IMHO even 4x4" were a bit over the top, but 4x140mm on a 750t destroyer is just too much. I won't put 140mm guns on a destroyer smaller than 1000t - my  Firanji DD design is 3x140mm on 1000t.

[maddox]

She's slow, ain't she...

[Darman]

She's slow, ain't she...

Speed is decisive for a destroyer aint it? 

[snip]

Well for launching torps its sort of nice to get there quick, and out if your still moving. The DDish thing im working on (I'm calling it a frigate) isnt super fast (27 knts) but I also dont have oil-firing boilers. It all depends on what you want the ship to do and the constraints you have to work with. In my case, the frigates most likely will not be the primary torpedo boats (working on something else for that) so top speed is not as great an issue but they they carry torps so the option is there. Its all in what you want a design to do.

[Sachmle]

At least you have the 10% oil sprayed for a 'burst' speed.