Firanji ships 1917-

[P3D]

Trying to see what fast battleship Firanj could lay down in 1918-1919.
Armament is Rohan-pattern 14"/50 and French 14cms.
To save on armor weight, the belt is inclined 10*, and narrow with only 5' above and 6' below WL - only to protect vitals, not flotation.
The AA weaponry is rather a 'placeholder' right now, will be changed.
Speed is 27kts, to match NSS Alaska.

Firanji Battleship laid down 1918, engine 1916

Displacement:
   30,001 t light; 31,616 t standard; 33,753 t normal; 35,463 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.71 ft / 718.00 ft x 102.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   219.67 m / 218.85 m x 31.09 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
     9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,803 lbs / 6,261 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   446.00 ft / 135.94 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     22.00 ft / 6.71 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   446.00 ft / 135.94 m   35.00 ft / 10.67 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

  - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 89,348 shp / 66,654 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,847 tons

Complement:
   1,244 - 1,618

Cost:
   £4.852 million / $19.410 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,725 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 10,839 tons, 32.1 %
      - Belts: 3,283 tons, 9.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,155 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 2,868 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,219 tons, 9.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 315 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,329 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,678 tons, 40.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,752 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 430 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,623 lbs / 19,787 Kg = 31.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31.00 ft / 9.45 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (63 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.80 ft / 6.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,716 Square feet or 4,619 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 953 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

Economy version of the same, squeezed into lvl 2 docks. The fewer bigger guns are more in line with Firanji practice. The savings are considerable, and these ship would still need similar counters than the larger one.

Firanji Economy Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   21,551 t light; 22,591 t standard; 24,280 t normal; 25,631 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,687 lbs / 4,394 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   380.00 ft / 115.82 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   160.00 ft / 48.77 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     17.00 ft / 5.18 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   380.00 ft / 115.82 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 82,087 shp / 61,237 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,040 tons

Complement:
   972 - 1,264

Cost:
   £3.599 million / $14.397 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,211 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 7,935 tons, 32.7 %
      - Belts: 2,548 tons, 10.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,012 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armament: 1,839 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,283 tons, 9.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 253 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,058 tons, 12.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,997 tons, 37.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,729 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,981 lbs / 13,599 Kg = 21.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (63 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.56 ft / 6.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 35,263 Square feet or 3,276 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 848 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Sachmle]

Overall, the 1st one's quite nice. Only things I don't like are:

Why set the speed to keep up w/ a ship that has slightly less armor but 1/3 more firepower? I'd want to be able to outrun that or be slower and equal/better in gunnery.

I think your AA is a LITTLE over the top. I could see 4-6 3" AA quite fine, I'm even OK w/ the 8 40mm, but I don't like the twins idea. Nor do I think we would have the foresight to know that those 3" won't be as useful as we think and go through ammo faster than a standard deck mount can supply. Basically I don't like having the single 3" in Mount & Hoist. You belt's not as short as one would think from the description, it still covers 96% of normal. It is narrow, but I understand cuts have to be made somewhere, but on a BB protection should be the last thing cut. Maybe if you drop 4 3" and the hoists/including the below deck armor on the 3" you'll have enough weight to widen the belt, a little.

[P3D]

Speed cost about 1000t/kts, too expensive. This is where i can economize the most. OTOH, 28kts allows better operational flexibility concerning the two other main fleets in the region (Dutch and DKB, whether in cooperation or against)
The armor is 5' AWL, 6' BWL. I could increase it 1-2', but that would also increase freeboard some. I don't think more than 6-7' armor BWL is necessary.

[Carthaginian]

For the Frianj, the Economy BB design, probably.
3 ships are more flexible than 2.

[P3D]

Revisited the economy design. 28kts speed, more 14cm guns on the centerline to increase fire against destroyers and cruisers. The ship should be able to fire on three different ships. The upper belt only covers the secondary hoist rooms. Got rid of the 3" guns. AA not shown.

Against airships the secondary armament would be used.



Firanj Economy BB, laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   22,999 t light; 24,065 t standard; 25,821 t normal; 27,226 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 93.50 ft x 31.17 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 28.50 m  x 9.50 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 12 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.49" / 12.5 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,624 lbs / 4,365 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   387.14 ft / 118.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   118.11 ft / 36.00 m   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   387.14 ft / 118.00 m   36.09 ft / 11.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.46" / 88 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100,267 shp / 74,799 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,161 tons

Complement:
   1,018 - 1,324

Cost:
   £4.677 million / $18.708 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,203 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 8,451 tons, 32.7 %
      - Belts: 3,094 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,018 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 1,734 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,346 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 259 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,736 tons, 14.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,209 tons, 35.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,822 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,051 lbs / 13,631 Kg = 21.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.95

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Stern:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.12 ft / 6.74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,601 Square feet or 3,400 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 841 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Carthaginian]

Against airships you'd probably need some 3" guns.
Using the 5.5" guns turns them into "dual purpose" guns, and that tech isn't available yet.

[P3D]

Against airships you'd probably need some 3" guns.
Using the 5.5" guns turns them into "dual purpose" guns, and that tech isn't available yet.

Distant airships are large enough target that they could be hit by low-angle weapons. It needs only an altitude guesstimate and extra firing tables - not really accurate, and the 20-30 degree max gun elevation indeed limits usefulness, but for horizontal movements regular Fire Control could be used. Granted, VERY limited engagement envelope, so an airship could easily fly outside of it.

[Ithekro]

The 40mm should be viable against current aircraft.

To engage multiple targets I'd recommend multiple Director Controls to improve accuracy of the 140mm guns while the 14" are otherwise engaged.

[P3D]

The 40mm should be viable against current aircraft.

To engage multiple targets I'd recommend multiple Director Controls to improve accuracy of the 140mm guns while the 14" are otherwise engaged.

Battleship FC includes more than one control, otherwise why it would be that damned heavy.

[Ithekro]

Most battleship FC have two...you'd want three.

[Sachmle]

16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 12 raised mounts - superfiring

Huh?

[P3D]

16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 12 raised mounts - superfiring

Huh?

Nah, should be twin mounts, 6 superfiring to represent the double-superfiring ones.

[Nobody]

Battleship FC includes more than one control, otherwise why it would be that damned heavy

Because it is armored?


But it's a good question, what is included in in the 250 t fire control? Early ships before WWI didn't have much more than a periscope in the conning tower and a plotting/computing room.
On a 1940 vessel however (using Bismarck as an example) we have a large rangefinder in every main turret, one forward, one aft and one central. In addition to medium rangefinders for the secondaries and even more for the AA guns. And don't forget the mobile rangefinders used to guide the Flaks and the analog computers.

16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 12 raised mounts - superfiring

Huh?

Judging by the picture I guess it should be 8 guns in 4 mounts on the centerline all raised and 8 guns in 4 mounts on side.

[Desertfox]

I love the fact that everyone is sticking 40mm AA guns on their ships... Quite possibly the worst AA weapon currently available.