New New Swiss Ships (war experience)

[Guinness]

Very few fishing boats in 1919 (or today) have a BC of 0.45 and can do 15 knots.

At any rate, if you do decide to build this to merchant standards, the mods will have to huddle, as we do (often quietly and behind the scenes) on many merchant built ships.

[P3D]

About the most impractical armament I've seen on Nverse small boats. Both mounts needing at least a crew of 3, the boat would be the definition of lively (with 0.9m draught), and 40mm ammo would only scratch a sub's pressure hull. NM that 15kts is slow.

Heh....I don't think that six depth charges on this ship (2 out of 49 tons, 4%), should lead it not to be able to built to merchant standards. I mean, this ship is obviously just a slightly modified fishing boat. The only thing that drives it over is the placing of a few depth charges on the ship......I think it should be able to be legally built to merchant standards.

The 550kg of armament and 250kg of ammunition does not leave much for depth charges.

[TexanCowboy]

Eh....didn't notice the guns.

I could buy it if it had only one or two 20 mm's, but with the 40 mm's....

[Desertfox]

How would you sim a stock fishing boat?

The minesweeper would be the one built to merchant standards and would be more lightly armed (only one of each weapons).

40mm APC rounds should have no problem breaching sub hulls. Even then creating holes in the ballast tanks would be a major problem for any sub.

[Carthaginian]

A stock fishing boat?
In 1920?

Well, in the Gulf, you're looking at a a ship of:
1.) anywhere from 40'-100'
2.) anywhere from 3:1 to 5:1 L:B ratio
3.) anywhere from 6-8 knots on average
4.) anywhere from 4'-10' in draft depending on length.

Few of these ships will likely go over 50 tons... most will stay below 30 tons.

[Guinness]

Quick and dirty, but this looks and feels a lot like a merchant form with gear bolted on. Note that I used petrol engines: I've been looking into the history of marine diesels a bit, and by 1920 they weren't terribly common on civilian ships it seems compared to what we read around here.

Armament + misc weight is still over the 2% limit, but I'd be willing to overlook that, especially if wooden construction.

Swiss Patrol Boat, New Switzerland Civlian Derived Patrol Boat laid down 1920

Displacement:
   50 t light; 52 t standard; 54 t normal; 56 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   70.00 ft / 63.00 ft x 16.00 ft x 3.00 ft (normal load)
   21.34 m / 19.20 m x 4.88 m  x 0.91 m

Armament:
      1 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      1 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 lbs / 1 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Machinery:
   Petrol Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 215 shp / 160 Kw = 12.00 kts
   Range 1,200nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4 tons

Complement:
   9 - 13

Cost:
   £0.007 million / $0.029 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 8 tons, 13.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 33 tons, 60.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 tons, 7.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 17.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     201 lbs / 91 Kg = 103.0 x 1.6 " / 40 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 38 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.630
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 7.94 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 19
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.10 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (12 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.09 ft / 3.38 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 745 Square feet or 69 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 199 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 16 lbs/sq ft or 78 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.61
      - Longitudinal: 87.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Desertfox]

Shiny! I'll probably build both designs, the fishing boat one for minesweeping and minelaying, the other one as a subchaser. Speaking of the subchaser would it be possible to build it to DD rules if speed is bumped up(~20kts)?

[The Rock Doctor]

No, not really.

[maddox]

Let me see. A wannabe DD at quarter price of a pure military vessel...  That would be a bargain, wouldn't it?

Of, It seems that kind of ship is already in the rules. Called a MAS boat. 
And those are actualy more expensive than anything else, except submarines.

[Desertfox]

Actually those would be my multi-purpose boats, of which I need to build more...

The subchaser would be built to full military standard, I was just asking if for 50% more price I could increase its speed by 5kts.

MAS boats are a completely different beast.

[P3D]

40mm APC rounds should have no problem breaching sub hulls. Even then creating holes in the ballast tanks would be a major problem for any sub.

You are shooting the top of a 2"+ thick steel tube that is 3/4 covered with water, that means the shots will deflect.

[Desertfox]

Even then I would prefer the RoF of a twin 40mm vs a single 75mm in a surface engagement. The depth charges are the real sub killers.


Finalized the CVL design.


Eagle Ray, New Switzerland Aircraft Carrying Cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   6,000 t light; 6,157 t standard; 7,386 t normal; 8,369 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 19.70 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 67 lbs / 30 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 54,746 shp / 40,840 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,700nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,211 tons

Complement:
   397 - 517

Cost:
   £1.301 million / $5.204 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 944 tons, 12.8 %
      - Belts: 567 tons, 7.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 344 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,857 tons, 25.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,401 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,386 tons, 18.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 790 tons, 10.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,498 lbs / 4,308 Kg = 87.9 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.64 ft / 5.38 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,600 Square feet or 1,728 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 381 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[TexanCowboy]

I'd love to see you try and land the planes without 1918 CV tech.

[Logi]

... Eagle Ray, New Switzerland Aircraft Carrying Cruiser laid down 1922 ...

I'd love to see you try and land the planes without 1918 CV tech.

I don't see the problem.

[Sachmle]

What I wanna see is how the planes in the center hold get to either the fore or aft deck to launch. They're too wide to go around the superstructure forward or aft.