New New Swiss Ships (war experience)

[Desertfox]

A jack-of-all trades tender.

Two things stood out during the war. Aircraft could make a difference, and more tenders and oilers where needed. As such this design.

Built to tender rules, it is designed to support 15,000 tons of shipping. It also uses 500 tons for aircraft facilities. Which are split into the following, forward is space for 10 aircraft (4 wheeled fighters, 3 float scouts, 3 float fighters), aft is space for either up to 3 balloons, or 5 flying boats. Aircraft can take off but not land on board. The ship can serve as a seaplane tender and support a full squadron.

The heavy armament is for self defense and can take out most AMCs/raiders out there, allowing it to operate with light escort.

The main role for this ship would be to find a nice anchorage and set up shop. Perfect for the Pacific islands.




New Switzerland Tender laid down 1922

Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,323 t standard; 14,637 t normal; 18,088 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 24.40 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 21.95 m  x 7.44 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 565 lbs / 256 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   520.00 ft / 158.50 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 148 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0.50" / 13 mm   520.00 ft / 158.50 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 22,303 shp / 16,638 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 25,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,765 tons

Complement:
   664 - 864

Cost:
   £1.405 million / $5.621 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 71 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 365 tons, 2.5 %
      - Belts: 123 tons, 0.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 231 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 757 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,808 tons, 26.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,637 tons, 31.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,000 tons, 34.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,171 lbs / 10,057 Kg = 205.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 34
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m before break)
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.20 ft / 4.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,881 Square feet or 2,497 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 197 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.09
      - Longitudinal: 1.18
      - Overall: 1.10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Carthaginian]

A submariner's delight!

[Guinness]

Sorry: armament + armor is more than 2% of the ships total weights at normal displacement, so it is not eligible to be built to merchant rules, tender or no.

[Desertfox]

Well it wasn't going to be true armor, more like general strengthening. But I guess I can remove some. The 6" guns are causing problems, don't know where to stick them so the pic looks nice.

Most of the time these ships will spend parked in some remote atoll, and when they are moving they are pretty fast and have those nasty little blimps. Not an easy sub target.

[Carthaginian]

Well it wasn't going to be true armor, more like general strengthening. But I guess I can remove some. The 6" guns are causing problems, don't know where to stick them so the pic looks nice.

Most of the time these ships will spend parked in some remote atoll, and when they are moving they are pretty fast and have those nasty little blimps. Not an easy sub target.

Anything that spends most of it's time parked is a juicy sub target.
Anything that moves really fast can't handle something as delicate as a blimp.
Any ship that is launching aircraft must steam in a straight line.


Sorry, DF- your logic isn't logical.
This ship will be a sitting duck any time it is doing what it is designed to do.

[Desertfox]

If it's parked in an atoll, it's going to have torpedo nets deployed, and I'll give the sub captain who penetrates said atoll props. Last I checked it never happened in the Pacific in WWII. 

15 knots is fast for a sub target but not to fast for the blimp. (thought I do need to develop those nifty German autogyros...)

If it's launching aircraft it has bigger problems than subs. And it probably won't be launching more than 1 at a time, at most 4.

[Carthaginian]

If it's parked in an atoll, it's going to have torpedo nets deployed, and I'll give the sub captain who penetrates said atoll props. Last I checked it never happened in the Pacific in WWII. 

15 knots is fast for a sub target but not to fast for the blimp. (thought I do need to develop those nifty German autogyros...)

If it's launching aircraft it has bigger problems than subs. And it probably won't be launching more than 1 at a time, at most 4.

1.) If it happened at all, it can happen in the Pacific.
2.) 15 knots is DAMN FAST for a blimp to be moored. Maybe you should look into how that actually happens?
3.) Perhaps now, but as time goes on...

Just saying, speed doesn't save carriers from subs- just look at WWII in the Pacific.

[Desertfox]

Well if you start sending your subs poking into atolls, they are going to be mighty easy to sink. A ship anchored next to an atoll is nearly impossible to find UNLESS the sub goes looking inside the atoll, and there's like a million of them around.

15 knots would be towing speed, and those are not really blimps more like big barrage balloons, when not in use they would be completely deflated.

Speed might not save them, but hiding probably will. Oh and NS is about to start pouring money into ASW...

[Carthaginian]

Well if you start sending your subs poking into atolls, they are going to be mighty easy to sink. A ship anchored next to an atoll is nearly impossible to find UNLESS the sub goes looking inside the atoll, and there's like a million of them around.

15 knots would be towing speed, and those are not really blimps more like big barrage balloons, when not in use they would be completely deflated.

Speed might not save them, but hiding probably will.

DF, 15 knots is VERY FAST for pulling a barrage balloon.
Imagine the kinds of stresses you will put on the mooring mast and the towing cable.

It's not as possible as it might look.

[Desertfox]

Well I should know soon enough, Had a few ships try that during this war. If anything, I can always strap a DH2 fuselage under the balloon, the engine should reduce stresses fine.

[ctwaterman]

I Know from experience in this war that ASW nets are not fool proof, nor are airpatrols infalliable.  

That being said 15 knots is a hard target for sub who is submerged to avoid the aircraft and balloons durring daylight hours.   At night anchored in a lagoon she is going to be a very hard target to find and in shallow water to boot.  On the other hand she is not going to be taking off from her deck anything that is carrying a heavy bomb/torpedo load she will have to winch the armed plane out and onto the water to give the plane the 1/2 mile of take off room it needs.

And Yes Pouring money into ASW is a very very good Idea.  Heck we need entire new catagories of ASW added after 1920......   Active Sonar was developed late 1918/1920 period just late enough to miss World War 1.   Early Hydrophones well the ship using them really couldnt be moving by latter ones could operate at slow speeds.

[Desertfox]

Nope, but they do help. Well a couple of MGs and some light bombs would make any sub captain wince. But if she's in a lagoon, there is plenty of calm water for seaplanes and probably clearings for wheeled ones. She'll serve more as a maintenance shop.

I'm going to redo the pic, the diamond gun config and three islands don't work very well, and she looks too much like an aircraft carrier. I'll switch to a two island engines in back, and reccess the 6" guns lower in the hull.

[Desertfox]

Wow, like the way the redo turned out, now it looks like a tender and much more impressive.

[Desertfox]

The Mirandas will end up being 1,400 tons lighter and 2 knots slower.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y22/ReneJr/newships2.gif

Miranda class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,004 t light; 6,327 t standard; 7,515 t normal; 8,465 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (5x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,212 lbs / 550 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   357.00 ft / 108.81 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 55,367 shp / 41,304 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,138 tons

Complement:
   403 - 524

Cost:
   £1.438 million / $5.752 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 151 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 998 tons, 13.3 %
      - Belts: 591 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 29 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 344 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,936 tons, 25.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,729 tons, 36.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,511 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,329 lbs / 3,778 Kg = 77.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.451
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (27 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.89 ft / 5.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,615 Square feet or 1,729 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 437 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Desertfox]

Two additional Miranda class cruisers will be built as aircraft carriers (once the proper tech is acquired). They would have an airwing of 20 aircraft, 15 fighters, 5 scouts.

Skua class, New Switzerland Aircraft Carrying Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,001 t light; 6,179 t standard; 7,477 t normal; 8,516 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 54.00 ft x 19.90 ft (normal load)
   164.59 m / 164.59 m x 16.46 m  x 6.07 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 132 lbs / 60 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   342.00 ft / 104.24 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 55,193 shp / 41,174 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,338 tons

Complement:
   401 - 522

Cost:
   £1.168 million / $4.671 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 947 tons, 12.7 %
      - Belts: 570 tons, 7.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 344 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,930 tons, 25.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,367 tons, 31.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,476 tons, 19.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 740 tons, 9.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,022 lbs / 4,092 Kg = 83.5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.451
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (27 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.89 ft / 5.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,615 Square feet or 1,729 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 379 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily