New Colombian Ships for 1920

[ctwaterman]

Did anyone ever build a stern and Side wheeler combination....  lots of propulsion redundancy and can still turn on a quarter and give a dime and a nickle in change.

[Sachmle]

Did anyone ever build a stern and Side wheeler combination....  lots of propulsion redundancy and can still turn on a quarter and give a dime and a nickle in change.

That would have to be a really long or wide ship. These things used Single and double expansion engines, usually in a horizontal set up that ate up huge amounts of room. With their shallow draft most of this space came from the main deck. If you put 2 types of wheels on you're putting two sets of engines on, that takes a lot of room.

[damocles]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18654864/

That is a test case of what I meant. It was in deep water where there should not have been any danger of grounding, hull breach and flooding. The ship was in some danger of founder at the time, but good damage control averted a major flood casualty and possible loss of vessel and produced instead a Human interest story.       

So you are correct. It was not that exciting at all.

[The Rock Doctor]

Reflecting further - Guinness probably has a point about the draught.  Probably.  Finding info on Congo river depths or historical boat draughts is only marginally less difficult than locating needles in haystacks.

I'll tinker with the dimensions some and see what I get.

[Carthaginian]

Reflecting further - Guinness probably has a point about the draught.  Probably.  Finding info on Congo river depths or historical boat draughts is only marginally less difficult than locating needles in haystacks.

I'll tinker with the dimensions some and see what I get.

Forget the draft of the boats.
It'd be much easier to find the depth of the locks that they traveled through. ;)

For instance, the current locks along the Tombigbee River (the one I know the most about) are designed to give a guaranteed minimum of 9' of depth. This covers most any barge that will park in them (as most of the tows I know of won't get much more than about 5-6' in draft). IIRC, most of the old locks that the modern ones replaced had a guaranteed depth of about 6'.

So, judging by that the boats and barges cruising them probably didn't draw more than about 2-3' of water... pretty much on par with the scale model that Guinness posted. Too bad my maternal Grandfather is no longer with us. Pa cruised the Tombigbee for over 20 years (on and off) on tugs using both sets of locks. He'd likely be able to give me depths of the channel for most places to within a foot, including seasonal variations.



And Damocles- that monstrosity isn't a real sternwheeler- she's really a Z-pod cruiseliner with a paddle wheel for looks. Yeah, it functions... but she's not really one of the bustled old ladies that provided such good service along the rivers of North America.

[maddox]

Reflecting further - Guinness probably has a point about the draught.  Probably.  Finding info on Congo river depths or historical boat draughts is only marginally less difficult than locating needles in haystacks.

I'll tinker with the dimensions some and see what I get.

Actualy, a buddy of me has a Kongo River patrol boat of 20 tons. Build in 1958, never got shipped due the Zaïre "independence", and was sold to the public in 1989.

Draught, as it was ment for the Kongo river, but also for brown water movement, is fairly steep at 75 cm. (2' 5.5").
Freeboard is about 1.75' at full load.

The prop is in a kind of protective half tunnel, about 3' inboard with 2 channels in the bottom guiding water to it. Keel is deeper than the screw diameter, what is actualy tiny.

[The Rock Doctor]

The Colombians have decided to rationalize their capital ship projects to avoid excessive need for larger slipways and to avoid the binge/famine cycle that "bunching" of capital ship projects creates for construction of smaller warships.  Starting in 1920, the Colombians will lay down one capital ship per year, and modernize one existing capital shp per year as well (starting with Triunfante, at the top of this thread).

The 1920 capital ship is a modified - and from the Colombian perspective, improved - Arquero class armored cruiser.  The Ironside and her 1921 sister, Roundhead, will feature a heavier battery, heavier deck armor, improved armor coverage, and provision for a blimp aft.  She will also carry the heaviest anti-aircraft battery of any Colombian ship to date.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   20,710 t light; 21,619 t standard; 23,668 t normal; 25,307 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.24 ft / 716.21 ft x 80.71 ft x 27.56 ft (normal load)
   219.83 m / 218.30 m x 24.60 m  x 8.40 m

Armament:
      8 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (4x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,335 lbs / 2,874 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   465.55 ft / 141.90 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   250.66 ft / 76.40 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 122,000 shp / 91,012 Kw = 31.12 kts
   Range 20,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,689 tons)

Complement:
   953 - 1,240

Cost:
   £4.644 million / $18.576 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 765 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 6,228 tons, 26.3 %
      - Belts: 2,786 tons, 11.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,411 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,857 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 175 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 4,266 tons, 18.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,841 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,958 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 609 tons, 2.6 %
-250 t:  Mk2 Fire Control
-250 t:  Blimp facilities
-25 t:  Long-range wireless
-25 t:  Flag facilities
-59 t:  Weight reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,735 lbs / 13,034 Kg = 45.3 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.87 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.54 ft / 8.70 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Mid (70 %):      23.62 ft / 7.20 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.65 ft / 6.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,228 Square feet or 3,644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 722 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Sachmle]

Oddly attractive in some way. However, if you used the EVIL quads you could shorten the for deck and move the superstructure forward allowing more room for your blimp and move the funnels farther from it so you have less interference w/ funnel gases effecting the blimp.

[Desertfox]

I like that ship...

[Logi]

I like quads, I think they are pretty >.>

Besides, using Quads would allow the armored citadel to be shortened and give better firing arcs as well as saving weight.

[The Rock Doctor]

Oddly attractive in some way. However, if you used the EVIL quads you could shorten the for deck and move the superstructure forward allowing more room for your blimp and move the funnels farther from it so you have less interference w/ funnel gases effecting the blimp.

I don't actually have evil quadruple 275's.  If I did - I'd probably need a wider hull, with more machinery needed.  

Funnel gases will be a problem for the blimp, but this may not become apparently soon enough.  I reckon the Colombians will eventually opt to re-jig the aft deck to provide for floatplane facilities rather than a blimp.  For now, though, they're continuing along a design path that began with those all-forward battleship designs I posted a while back.

[Ithekro]

Well there where some paddlewheel turreted ironclads during the American Civil War such as USS Osage.  Shallow draft, but armored box for the paddlewheel and a turret up front with a small structure between them (wooden).

[Jefgte]

...the Colombians will lay down one capital ship per year, and modernize one existing capital shp per year as well.

..

I like  ;)

Stability - 1.07 -  is not tiptop on your 20710t AC...


Jef

[P3D]

Super-Tone.

[Carthaginian]

LOL... and I was just finishing up my mini-Tone. ;)