Confederate Ships - 1920

[Carthaginian]

I like the concept, but the hull form could be tweaked - drop the BC down to about 0.5, then nudge the length/beam up a bit.  It's not like you're trying to wedge it into a Type 1 slip.

Nope, the only real requirement for this ship is "from concept to christening = 12 Months."

I based the hull form on another ship I was thinking about, which is not exactly suited to the new 'reconnaissance cruiser' concept that the CSA is considering. A better hull will likely fix most of the problems.

[Carthaginian]

Fast, small and carrying a lot of torpedo firepower.
No room for guns or other frills- just a long-range torpedo attack craft, good for fending off invasions in calm coastal waters.

TDB-01, Confederate States of America Torpedo Defense Boat laid down 1920

Displacement:
   203 t light; 208 t standard; 250 t normal; 284 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   220.00 ft / 220.00 ft x 20.00 ft x 5.00 ft (normal load)
   67.06 m / 67.06 m x 6.10 m  x 1.52 m
   5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,234 shp / 4,651 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 470nm at 27.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 76 tons

Complement:
   30 - 40

Cost:
   £0.060 million / $0.241 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 131 tons, 52.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 62 tons, 24.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 47 tons, 18.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     61 lbs / 28 Kg = 0.6 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.54

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.398
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 94
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Mid (50 %):      6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Stern:      4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Average freeboard:   6.08 ft / 1.85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 22.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,705 Square feet or 251 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 75 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.53
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Trial Speed: 32.5 knots

[Jefgte]

This is a kind of "shinyo" - a kamikaze MTB.

[TexanCowboy]

A gun or two would be nice, so they have some form of defense against MTB's and can undertake patrol work if nessasary....2 1'' machine guns should do rather nicely.

[Carthaginian]

This is a kind of "shinyo" - a kamikaze MTB.

Well, not meant to be a kamikaze per se... but it's definitely expendable and cheap.
A single Level 0 port can support 25 of them.

[Carthaginian]

In an effort to replace the TR-200 design, the Confederate Admiralty is looking for a new coastal torpedo ram design. intended to be deployed primarily in the Gulf of Texas. Desiring to keep the vessel small enough to produce in quantity, the displacement is limited to 750 tons.

Three Design Studies have been put forth:

Study #1 750 tons, Confederate States of America Torpedo Ram (New) laid down 1920

Displacement:
   750 t light; 779 t standard; 900 t normal; 996 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 265.00 ft x 26.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 80.77 m x 7.92 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
     3 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft
     1 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on side amidships, 1 raised gun
     2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 78 lbs / 35 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.36" / 9 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 24,991 shp / 18,643 Kw = 31.26 kts
   Range 4,100nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 217 tons

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0.239 million / $0.955 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 483 tons, 53.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 221 tons, 24.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     196 lbs / 89 Kg = 9.1 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.70

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.457
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.53 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.16 ft / 3.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 185.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 51.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,420 Square feet or 411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 123 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.76
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Gun Armor Note: The gun in Y position is unarmored; the guns in A and Z positions have 0.5" armored shields.

Trial Speed: 32.5 knots

Miscellaneous Weights:
10 tons: 5 x 21" torpedoes
25 tons: Room for Expansion

Study #2 750 tons, Confederate States of America Torpedo Ram (New) laid down 1920

Displacement:
   750 t light; 782 t standard; 900 t normal; 994 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 265.00 ft x 26.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 80.77 m x 7.92 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
     2 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     1 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on side amidships, 1 raised gun
     2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 103 lbs / 47 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 240
   5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,000 shp / 18,650 Kw = 31.26 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 212 tons

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0.246 million / $0.985 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 474 tons, 52.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 224 tons, 24.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     193 lbs / 87 Kg = 3.6 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.71

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.457
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.53 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.16 ft / 3.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 51.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,420 Square feet or 411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 47 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.79
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Trial Speed: 32.5 knots

Miscellaneous Weights:
10 tons: 5 x 21" torpedoes
25 tons: Room for Expansion

Study #3 750 tons, Confederate States of America Torpedo Ram (New) laid down 1920

Displacement:
   730 t light; 769 t standard; 900 t normal; 1,004 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 265.00 ft x 26.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 80.77 m x 7.92 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
     3 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
     1 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on side amidships, 1 raised gun
     2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 153 lbs / 69 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 245
   5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.36" / 9 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,000 shp / 18,650 Kw = 31.26 kts
   Range 4,450nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 235 tons

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0.256 million / $1.024 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 468 tons, 52.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 228 tons, 25.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 170 tons, 18.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     195 lbs / 88 Kg = 3.6 x 4.8 " / 121 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.71

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.457
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.53 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.16 ft / 3.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 187.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 51.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,420 Square feet or 411 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 47 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.80
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Gun Armor Note: The gun in Y position is unarmored; the guns in A and Z positions have 0.5" armored shields.

Trial Speed: 32.5 knots

Miscellaneous Weights:
10 tons: 5 x 21" torpedoes

*fixed an 'oops'

[The Rock Doctor]

None of them actually do fit a D0.  I'd go with #2, myself - #1 may be a little crowded with the extra main gun (even if a smaller weapon) and #3 leaves no room for growth, such as an ASW kit.

[Carthaginian]

None of them actually do fit a D0.  I'd go with #2, myself - #1 may be a little crowded with the extra main gun (even if a smaller weapon) and #3 leaves no room for growth, such as an ASW kit.

Fixed the goof... and it's pretty tightly packed, but the ship that I got the idea from had an additional heavy AA on centerline on just 10 more feet... so it should fit even with 3 main guns.

[The Rock Doctor]

I don't disagree that #1 will work - just that #2 will be a bit roomier.

[Carthaginian]

I don't disagree that #1 will work - just that #2 will be a bit roomier.

Yeah... #2's primary advantage would be later growth for mounting ASW gear.
Right now, I'm not sure whether or not I'd not like to build them as #3 and save #2 as a 'modification' to the design later on to reflect 'new developments in ASW technology and tactics."

#2 also fits better into the CSA's current destroyer fleet, and could use standard 1500 ton ships as DDL's due to the commonality.

[Guinness]

Self-serving design observation alert: The CSN still has these designs on the shelf:

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4415.0

Even though they have too much freeboard *wink*, for the tonnage, compared to these, the 750 tonners here don't seem to offer too much more. Some of the duration and or misc weight discrepancy could be made up for by lighter 1920 machinery. They carry less tubes, but 3 of these at 1500 total tons would ship 9 fish, while two of the 750 ton designs would carry 10.

The 1917 "Emergency" designs don't fit in a type 0 DD either, but at the time I rationalized that by counting the sheer number of type 1 and larger docks the CSA possesses.

(The 1917 Emergency program also bears the distinction of being my favorite DD illustration I've done so far too, so they have a special spot in my heart)

[Carthaginian]

I didn't care to much for the 'Emergency' destroyers.
And I  wanted the larger ships for the greater range, endurance, and firepower.

[Guinness]

Well then, I'll slink back to my cave...

[Carthaginian]

The G Class shares the problem that Rock pointed out about #3 of my Studies, Guinness... nowhere to go (a major problem with a lot of my older designs). As time goes on, these ships can have another torpedo or three added, have ASDIC installed, mount depth charges, ship mines, be loaded down with AAA or serve as light transports.

The Emergency Destroyers can't do any of those.
The Castle class is still VERY much a contender for a coastal minelayer... but the G Class probably will stay in the springsharp books.

[Carthaginian]

A modification of Study #3 has been picked to serve as the next coastal torpedo ram of the CSN.
When the design is finished, it'll be posted here.



An export version- using 1916 E.Y. turbines- will be up for sale at a 25% premium in $ and BP.

750 ton Coastal Torpedo Ram
3x1x4.75"/L50 50-pounder QF guns
1x1x1.58" AA cannon & 2x1x1" AA machine guns
1x3 & 1x2 21" TT in trainable mounts
20 tons for equipment addition
31.5 kts top speed; 4000 n. mi. @ 14 kts.

Interested buyers may apply to the Confederate Admiralty via the Confederate Consul in their nation.
More exact specifications will be given at that time.