Holland Project 1112

[damocles]

KMS Koloth, Holland Project 1112 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   10,973 t light; 11,452 t standard; 12,367 t normal; 13,098 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   610.88 ft / 598.75 ft x 65.62 ft (Bulges 68.90 ft) x 20.18 ft (normal load)
   186.20 m / 182.50 m x 20.00 m (Bulges 21.00 m)  x 6.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,661 lbs / 1,207 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   588.98 ft / 179.52 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 151 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1.50" / 38 mm   353.28 ft / 107.68 m   17.55 ft / 5.35 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 86,971 shp / 64,880 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,646 tons

Complement:
   586 - 762

Cost:
   £2.574 million / $10.297 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 333 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 2,115 tons, 17.1 %
      - Belts: 872 tons, 7.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 343 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 380 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 485 tons, 3.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,041 tons, 24.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,985 tons, 40.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,393 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,950 lbs / 5,874 Kg = 45.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.23 ft / 8.30 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Stern:      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.24 ft / 6.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 151.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,662 Square feet or 2,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 587 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
  25 tons acoustics.
  25 tons navigation radar
  25 tons radio
128 tons torpedoes
   47 tons spare 

Now I have to see what she looks like

[TexanCowboy]

A. Torpedo Bulkhead, unneeded. Waste of tonnage.

B. Rather thin belt and deck for this size ship.

[damocles]

A. Torpedo Bulkhead, unneeded. Waste of tonnage.

B. Rather thin belt and deck for this size ship.

Played with the armor.

KMS Koloth, Holland Project 1112 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   10,862 t light; 11,338 t standard; 12,248 t normal; 12,975 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   610.88 ft / 598.75 ft x 65.62 ft (Bulges 68.90 ft) x 20.18 ft (normal load)
   186.20 m / 182.50 m x 20.00 m (Bulges 21.00 m)  x 6.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,661 lbs / 1,207 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   410.79 ft / 125.21 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 86,234 shp / 64,331 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,636 tons

Complement:
   581 - 756

Cost:
   £2.557 million / $10.227 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 333 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 2,064 tons, 16.8 %
      - Belts: 490 tons, 4.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 380 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,160 tons, 9.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 34 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,015 tons, 24.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,951 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,385 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,743 lbs / 5,780 Kg = 45.1 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.23 ft / 8.30 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Stern:      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.24 ft / 6.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,539 Square feet or 2,466 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 585 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
  25 tons acoustics.
  25 tons navigation radar
  25 tons radio
128 tons torpedoes
   47 tons spare 
Inclined belts.

I don't see any discernible statistical difference. 

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,950 lbs / 5,874 Kg = 45.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

versus

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,743 lbs / 5,780 Kg = 45.1 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

[TexanCowboy]

On the SS, no. But in reality, that would be a waste of tonnage, as adaquate beam for the TDS to work is not available. I, personnally, consider 80 feet to be the minimum.

[Guinness]

If the Nverse Dutch decided to build a treaty cruiser, I think it would be faster. As it is now 31 knots would mean that this ship couldn't even run from the CSA's fast new armored cruisers (for instance) or many of their contemporaries. And with this armament and armor, this ship certainly couldn't fight one of those. In fact, I suspect it would have trouble with two 6" armed cruisers.

You'll find many here are hostile to the treaty cruiser as a concept, and for good reason. The 10,000 ton/8" Washington limit in many ways imposed uncomfortable limitations on the signees.

Personally, I think the Dutch would benefit greatly from a more "conventional" 150mm armed cruiser, of say 7000ish tons and 31.5 knots or so, but that's just idle speculation on my part.

[damocles]

Some things.

1. I have three years of infrastructure to catch up on.
2. I don't have a gun calibre family that makes sense. Its either too heavy or too light per class band.
3. 7000 tons is 7BP and 7$. I only have 19 per half year to play with. I therefore need to budget to build the cruisers for a fleet that had destroyers that we tacitly agreed now would not have 8 or 10 120mm guns and pass themselves off as light cruisers. We retconned that to make sense.  
4. Speed speed speed; in the real naval world it didn't matter. One knot or two knots, once you hit the engagement range bands you were getting medium calibre ladders and hits every thirty seconds. or less......

See here.....

55 k/h ~ 30 knots ~ 15.3 m/s  459 meters in 30 seconds
60 k/h ~ 33 knots ~ 16.5 m/s  485 meters in 30 seconds

<0.00946% bearing correction in gun lay at 10,000 meters to cover the 26 meter difference?

Is it any wonder that I don't see top speed as critical? Its the ability to dodge.  


   


 

[TexanCowboy]

And once those extra three knot's start adding up....and dodging will take you farther off of your course, slowing you down even more.

Gun caliber: 250 mm, 6 of those, would be my preference.

[maddox]

Pity about the length, now you'll need those rare type 3 docks and slips even more.

[damocles]

Respectfully disagree. The chase the splash solution does not change the essential gunnery problem here which is that you confuse baseline track stern chase with each bearing range solution which is an independent event and not calculable as anything but an independent event.

Also who assumes that if you chase that you are being wise here? There is such a thing as sailing into a Kaufman or Arleigh Burke ambush.
==============================================
Four shell ladder is the minimum size for optical fire control. I have some 4000 tonners designed with 6 x 150mm but then those are pack fighters not intended to operate as lone wolves so 1 and 1/2 ladders is acceptable.

Something this big though may have to engage two 4000-7000 ton targets.        
==============================================

Pity about the length, now you'll need those rare type 3 docks and slips even more.

Maybe........ ;) 

[damocles]

KMS Kadmus, USA Light Cruiser laid down 1920

KMS Kadmus, USA Light Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   10,438 t light; 11,051 t standard; 12,023 t normal; 12,801 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   548.69 ft / 544.62 ft x 72.18 ft x 21.98 ft (normal load)
   167.24 m / 166.00 m x 22.00 m  x 6.70 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2 mounts), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 6 raised guns
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,342 lbs / 1,970 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   336.58 ft / 102.59 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 59,013 shp / 44,024 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,750 tons

Complement:
   573 - 746

Cost:
   £2.624 million / $10.496 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 543 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 1,885 tons, 15.7 %
      - Belts: 515 tons, 4.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 371 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 943 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,063 tons, 17.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,447 tons, 45.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,585 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,247 lbs / 6,009 Kg = 27.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.487
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.68 ft / 7.83 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.98 ft / 5.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,886 Square feet or 2,405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 710 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.64
      - Overall: 1.05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

450 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
25 tons radio
25 tons navigation radar
25 tons acoustics
144 tons torpedoes (3 reloads)
Armor is inclined belt

[Jefgte]

... 8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2 mounts), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 6 raised guns

???  ???  ???

[damocles]

KMS Kadmus, Holland Project 1114 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   9,979 t light; 10,582 t standard; 11,529 t normal; 12,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   548.69 ft / 544.62 ft x 72.18 ft x 21.98 ft (normal load)
   167.24 m / 166.00 m x 22.00 m  x 6.70 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x4 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,342 lbs / 1,970 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   344.98 ft / 105.15 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 56,939 shp / 42,477 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,705 tons

Complement:
   556 - 723

Cost:
   £2.562 million / $10.248 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 543 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 1,839 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 525 tons, 4.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 334 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 926 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,991 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,106 tons, 44.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,551 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,616 lbs / 5,723 Kg = 26.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.68 ft / 7.83 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.98 ft / 5.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,435 Square feet or 2,363 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 676 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
25 tons radio
25 tons navigation radar
25 tons acoustics
144 tons torpedoes (4 reloads)
Armor is inclined belt

===================================== :P :P :P

I keep forgetting to check stuff

[Sachmle]

You have some weight left you can use (1.05 composite). I'd try for a little more speed, I think you may get 1kt out of it, but it will drop your seakeeping more to do so so you may have to go to 10,000t light so you can add some freeboard to make up for the extra speed. 28kts isn't 'slow' per se, but there are things that go 30+ knots that would eat this for lunch and want a second helping. I understand your philosophy on strategic vs tactical speed, but being unable to run from a superior enemy is a bad thing. This is why top speed is somewhat important.

[Jefgte]

Globaly a good concept except for the thickness of the belt (IMO)
Nice drawing too but perhaps too modern for a 1920 ship

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.68 ft / 7.83 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.98 ft / 5.17 m

The stem / bow drawing is different


Jef  ;)

[damocles]

You have some weight left you can use (1.05 composite). I'd try for a little more speed, I think you may get 1kt out of it, but it will drop your seakeeping more to do so so you may have to go to 10,000t light so you can add some freeboard to make up for the extra speed. 28kts isn't 'slow' per se, but there are things that go 30+ knots that would eat this for lunch and want a second helping. I understand your philosophy on strategic vs tactical speed, but being unable to run from a superior enemy is a bad thing. This is why top speed is somewhat important.

1. Most of them are bigger and shorter ranged than this ship.
2. Money and time.
3. 1 knot over 28 knots over a 5 minute gun duel  adds 1542 meters or 7/8th a nautical mile I can cover at 29 knots as opposed to 28 knots. It isn't worth it.  Two knots and I bust the 10,000 ton limit. (See 2)    

Globaly a good concept except for the thickness of the belt (IMO)
Nice drawing too but perhaps too modern for a 1920 ship

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
  Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
  Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      25.68 ft / 7.83 m
     - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
     - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
     - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
     - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.98 ft / 5.17 m

The stem / bow drawing is different Jef  ;)

It takes at least an hour to conceive what the thing looks like and then get a feel for the "look" The SS calls for a raised bow

HERE:

KMS Kadmus, Holland Project 1114 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   9,979 t light; 10,582 t standard; 11,529 t normal; 12,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   547.35 ft / 544.62 ft x 72.18 ft x 21.98 ft (normal load)
   166.83 m / 166.00 m x 22.00 m  x 6.70 m

Armament:
     8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x4 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
     8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
     32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,342 lbs / 1,969 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   344.98 ft / 105.15 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 56,939 shp / 42,477 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,705 tons

Complement:
   556 - 723

Cost:
   £2.562 million / $10.248 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 543 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 1,839 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 525 tons, 4.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 334 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 926 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,991 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,106 tons, 44.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,551 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,619 lbs / 5,724 Kg = 26.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,435 Square feet or 2,363 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 681 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.06
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

450 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
25 tons radio
25 tons navigation radar
25 tons acoustics
144 tons torpedoes (4 reloads)
Armor is inclined belt

Now she is WET.


KMS Kadmus, Holland Project 1114 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   9,979 t light; 10,582 t standard; 11,529 t normal; 12,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   548.69 ft / 544.62 ft x 72.18 ft x 21.98 ft (normal load)
   167.24 m / 166.00 m x 22.00 m  x 6.70 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2x4 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      32 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,342 lbs / 1,970 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   344.98 ft / 105.15 m   9.02 ft / 2.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 56,939 shp / 42,477 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,705 tons

Complement:
   556 - 723

Cost:
   £2.562 million / $10.248 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 543 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 1,839 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 525 tons, 4.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 334 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 926 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,991 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,106 tons, 44.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,551 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,616 lbs / 5,723 Kg = 26.5 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.68 ft / 7.83 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Stern:      16.34 ft / 4.98 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.98 ft / 5.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,435 Square feet or 2,363 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 676 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
25 tons radio
25 tons navigation radar
25 tons acoustics
144 tons torpedoes (4 reloads)
Armor is inclined belt

Better.

That is what I should have drawn.