Middle Kingdom, the van Seik Mission. Model 1000 destroyer

damocles · June 13, 2010, 04:12:42 PM

Type 1000 Destroyer, Middle Kingdom torpedobootjager 1000 laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   990 t light; 1,036 t standard; 1,175 t normal; 1,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   324.80 ft / 324.80 ft x 29.53 ft x 11.15 ft (normal load)
   99.00 m / 99.00 m x 9.00 m x 3.40 m

Armament:
5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on side amidships
   Weight of broadside 264 lbs / 120 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 17.7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

- Armour deck: 0.08" / 2 mm, Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,685 shp / 14,685 Kw = 29.60 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 251 tons

Complement:
   99 - 130

Cost:
   £0.300 million / $1.202 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 33 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 1.6 %
     - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 8 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 9 tons, 0.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 538 tons, 45.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 388 tons, 33.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 185 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     350 lbs / 159 Kg = 6.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.03
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.385
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      19.82 ft / 6.04 m
     - Forecastle (15 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Mid (32 %):      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Quarterdeck (10 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Stern:      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Average freeboard:   13.06 ft / 3.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,858 Square feet or 544 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 0.59
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

12 tons all for torpedoes.

maddox · June 13, 2010, 04:49:52 PM

MK crews will adore this ship. Comfortable like the Forbidden city.

But there are some disadvantages.

End on fire only , BIG problem.
The MK has a 140mm gun and a 105, no 120mm. It could be developed, but for single mounts, deck mounting could suffice.
10mm gun armor. Weathershields in other words. Maybe to much comfort for the hard working MK sailors, weight better spend somewere else?
Speed, 30 kts for a DD is slow.

Quad 15mm breechloaders? The MK is operating twin 25mm machineguns since 1900.

A DD with deck armor?

The MK uses 21" torpedo's since 1912, no reason to use smaller, less competent fish.

And to avoid Guinness... BC is a tad low.

damocles · June 13, 2010, 05:16:34 PM

Quote from: maddox on June 13, 2010, 04:49:52 PM
MK crews will adore this ship. Comfortable like the Forbidden city.

But there are some disadvantages.

End on fire only , BIG problem.
The MK has a 140mm gun and a 105, no 120mm. It could be developed, but for single mounts, deck mounting could suffice.
10mm gun armor. Weathershields in other words. Maybe to much comfort for the hard working MK sailors, weight better spend somewere else?
Speed, 30 kts for a DD is slow.

Quad 15mm breechloaders? The MK is operating twin 25mm machineguns since 1900.

A DD with deck armor?

The MK uses 21" torpedo's since 1912, no reason to use smaller, less competent fish.

And to avoid Guinness... BC is a tad low.

Work in progress. I'm thinking the modernized H class when all the Italian jobs are done in this last run, The MK will have 12.0 cm guns soon. ;D

damocles · June 13, 2010, 05:48:45 PM

Type 1000 Destroyer, Middle Kingdom torpedobootjager 1000 laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   999 t light; 1,037 t standard; 1,177 t normal; 1,289 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   324.80 ft / 324.80 ft x 29.53 ft x 11.15 ft (normal load)
   99.00 m / 99.00 m x 9.00 m x 3.40 m

Armament:
5 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward
4 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mount
     on side amidships
   Weight of broadside 179 lbs / 81 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,835 shp / 15,543 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 251 tons

Complement:
   99 - 130

Cost:
   £0.291 million / $1.165 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.8 %
     - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 7 tons, 0.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 570 tons, 48.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 374 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 178 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     340 lbs / 154 Kg = 9.6 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.385
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      19.82 ft / 6.04 m
     - Forecastle (15 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Mid (32 %):      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Quarterdeck (10 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Stern:      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
     - Average freeboard:   13.06 ft / 3.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,859 Square feet or 544 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 0.60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

24 tons misc
all torpedoes.

Revised to use MK tech.

maddox · June 13, 2010, 06:32:45 PM

Hmmm,

The 105mm guns don't need hoists in single mountings.

The quad 25mm on 1 side seems strange. I would change it into 2 twin mounts on side forward, raised mounts.

But all in all, a nice but a tad slow DD.

Logi · June 13, 2010, 06:45:09 PM

Quads? The MK doesn't even have triples tech.

damocles · June 13, 2010, 07:01:22 PM

Type 1000 Destroyer, Middle Kingdom torpedobootjager 1000 laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   999 t light; 1,037 t standard; 1,177 t normal; 1,289 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   324.80 ft / 324.80 ft x 29.53 ft x 11.15 ft (normal load)
   99.00 m / 99.00 m x 9.00 m x 3.40 m

Armament:
5 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1919 Model
    Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
    on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (1x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1919 Model
    Machine guns in deck mount
    on centreline amidships
   Weight of broadside 179 lbs / 81 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

- Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,835 shp / 15,543 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 251 tons

Complement:
   99 - 130

Cost:
   £0.291 million / $1.165 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.8 %
    - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Armament: 7 tons, 0.6 %
    - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 570 tons, 48.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 374 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 178 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
    333 lbs / 151 Kg = 9.4 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 95 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.385
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 74
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem:      19.82 ft / 6.04 m
    - Forecastle (15 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
    - Mid (32 %):      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
    - Quarterdeck (10 %):   12.63 ft / 3.85 m
    - Stern:      12.63 ft / 3.85 m
    - Average freeboard:   13.06 ft / 3.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,859 Square feet or 544 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 0.59
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

24 tons misc
all torpedoes. .

===========================================

Analysis noted: explanation.

I changed the mounts to reflect the Dutch pattern destroyer that is evolving in our destroyer design since the I class. The quad MG mount is also a new Dutch design quirk now as a means to save deck space for torpedoes. these new pattern destroyers are what we hope the MK will accept as part of the van Seik mission aid package.
===========================================

Logi, these are manually trained machine guns not medium calibre naval rifles. Four of them are stacked in the corners of a box frame and they are traversed and elevated and loaded by hand to follow your Zeppelins.....

You know, like the British did in 1917.

D.

Guinness · June 17, 2010, 02:47:11 PM

MGs and their mounts under 1" can simply be declared without development, so I think that's ok. The mount will be heavy and difficult to train without power assist though, and we can assume there is no power assist on a declared mounting.

Obligatory Guinness harping: this ship, like most Nverse destroyers, has too much freeboard and not enough speed. IMHO a seaboat rating of over .6 on a DD rules-built ship would be overkill.

You weren't here for that controversy, so here's a link: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4588.0