LCA/I's?

[Sachmle]

So I tried to sim the historical British LCA and found that to get a 1.00 the weight had to be 55t instead of 10t and the BC is 2.298. Seems we may have to use historical ships/charts similar to subs/MTBs for these little buggers. I understand that these weren't built IRL until WWII, but here we have a 1910 LST tech, where LST's weren't made until 1940 either. So....if we can built LSTs in 1914 (earliest based on full time tech research) then we should be able to built LCA/LCIs too. Here is the SS.


Displacement:
   55 t light; 56 t standard; 57 t normal; 57 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   41.50 ft / 41.50 ft x 10.00 ft x 2.08 ft (normal load)
   12.65 m / 12.65 m x 3.05 m  x 0.63 m

Armament:
     1 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine gun in deck mount
     on side forward, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.75" / 19 mm     41.50 ft / 12.65 m   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

  - Armour deck: 0.25" / 6 mm

Machinery:
   Petrol Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 130 shp / 97 Kw = 8.87 kts
   Range 58nm at 8.87 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons

Complement:
   9 - 13

Cost:
   £0.006 million / $0.022 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 10.8 %
      - Belts: 2 tons, 4.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 4 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 3 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 tons, 17.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 tons, 2.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 36 tons, 63.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60 lbs / 27 Kg = 4,302.7 x 0.3 " / 8 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.0 m
   Roll period: 10.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 10 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 2.298
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 6.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 78 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Mid (50 %):      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Stern:      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Average freeboard:   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 35.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 829 Square feet or 77 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 11 lbs/sq ft or 51 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[Walter]

For a ship that size, use the available data rather than simming it. At least that is my opinion. I did the same with the Daihatsu, Toku-Daihatsu and Shohatsu over at Wesworld when I built a bunch of them.

[Nobody]

If I understand this correctly than the original had a capacity of 4 tons, so why the 36 tons misc?
Also, since this is one of the lightest vessels I could think of, what happens if you accept a 0.5 overall strength?

[Sachmle]

If I understand this correctly than the original had a capacity of 4 tons, so why the 36 tons misc?

Because I misremembered the weight per troop from the rules. I only need 9t by rule. I'll re-sim it.

Also, since this is one of the lightest vessels I could think of, what happens if you accept a 0.5 overall strength?

Because to qualify for the 0.5 rule it has to be over 24kts. An exception could be made, IDK.

[Sachmle]

23t instead of 55t, but still heavier than the 13t historic and the BC is still 0.971.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   23 t light; 24 t standard; 24 t normal; 24 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   41.50 ft / 41.50 ft x 10.00 ft x 2.08 ft (normal load)
   12.65 m / 12.65 m x 3.05 m  x 0.63 m

Armament:
     1 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine gun in deck mount
     on side forward, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 1,500

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   0.75" / 19 mm     41.50 ft / 12.65 m   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

  - Armour deck: 0.25" / 6 mm

Machinery:
   Petrol Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 130 shp / 97 Kw = 10.91 kts
   Range 60nm at 10.91 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 tons

Complement:
   5 - 7

Cost:
   £0.003 million / $0.014 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 17.6 %
      - Belts: 2 tons, 9.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 5 tons, 18.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 tons, 22.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 tons, 3.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 9 tons, 37.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24 lbs / 11 Kg = 1,716.0 x 0.3 " / 8 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 10 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.971
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 6.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 80 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Forecastle (5 %):   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Mid (50 %):      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Stern:      2.00 ft / 0.61 m
      - Average freeboard:   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 31.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 415 Square feet or 39 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 11 lbs/sq ft or 51 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.82
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd just work with standardized charts of some kind - it's not like we'd signficantly customize these.

[Blooded]

it's not like we'd signficantly customize these.

Rock... Rock... Rock...

You must not have heard of DesertFox or Logi eh?  :P

Expect Rocketlaunchers, 105mm's, jet pack assault troops, tracks or balloon tires, and able to fit under a Dirigible in pairs or quads. Oh, and all this by 1922. Assymetrical at its best(30 of these for less than a DD).  ::)

[Sachmle]

You know, the more I look at the last sim, the more I think it's actually pretty close other than weight. The High BC makes sense, they were flat bottomed and square bowed. If we say:

SIM your LCI/LCA/etc in SS multiply light weight by 0.5 or 0.6 that is the light weight of the ACTUAL ship to represent it being built from Wood, aluminum, etc.. Then no table is needed.

[Logi]

You must not have heard of DesertFox or Logi eh?

Expect Rocketlaunchers, 105mm's, jet pack assault troops, tracks or balloon tires, and able to fit under a Dirigible in pairs or quads.

Rocket Launchers do NOT work on water. In fact, it quite defeats the purpose of rockets in the first place. The advantage of rockets is to saturate an area quickly, not provide long time fire, which IMO a LST should provide.

Jet Pack Assault Troops? I do not see the point other than being pretty. There is no tactical advantage. In fact every moment is tracked by smoke trails.

Balloon tires? What's that.

I hate airships. Don't point me out for no reason, I keep my stuff realistic to a point. You're fusing DF and TC ideas and saying that's me. I have nothing to do with it.

[Desertfox]

Sheez... I'm not THAT bad. Most of my advance ideas come from the need to counter somebodies advanced design.

[Walter]

Oh, I though that most of your advance ideas came from the need to build something others suggest.

[Suggestion mode on]
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
[Suggestion mode off]
:D

[P3D]

Try to sim with deeper average draught (trim tranks for landing). BTW your ship is 14t unloaded, so pretty accurate.

[Jefgte]

...You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
You must build jet fighters.
...

Buy rockets from Chineses

:D

[Logi]

Buy rockets from Chineses

I'll be sure to rig them to blow up at ignition. ;)

[P3D]

Buy rockets from Chineses

I'll be sure to rig them to blow up at ignition. ;)

That's the factory standard settings. :P