Ottoman Empire Coast Defense ship competition

[Nobody]

Nobody: I like your design. What's the intention of the main battery layout though?

You think it's unusual? Or the wrong concept?
Six main guns in three turrets, one forward on deck, two aft on the lower deck and one raised (at a similar level as the forward one). "Separated by engine room", why not, puts him a bit in the middle - that's just what happens if you tell SpringSharp "distributed".
The intention is to save weight through the shorter Barbette aft (about 100 tons if I remember correctly).

[maddox]

Aïsha, Ottoman coastal battleship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9.000 t light; 9.570 t standard; 10.072 t normal; 10.473 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 68,90 ft x 17,06 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 21,00 m  x 5,20 m

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (1x4 guns), 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
      16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4.151 lbs / 1.883 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   5,00 ft / 1,52 m
     Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12.196 shp / 9.098 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 4.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 903 tons

Complement:
   502 - 653

Cost:
   £1,894 million / $7,575 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 503 tons, 5,0%
   Armour: 3.987 tons, 39,6%
      - Belts: 2.050 tons, 20,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 542 tons, 5,4%
      - Armour Deck: 1.274 tons, 12,6%
      - Conning Tower: 121 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 454 tons, 4,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.656 tons, 36,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.072 tons, 10,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 4,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15.900 lbs / 7.212 Kg = 23,7 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,762
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Mid (50%):      11,48 ft / 3,50 m (11,15 ft / 3,40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Stern:      11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,68 ft / 3,56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100,7%
   Waterplane Area: 22.949 Square feet or 2.132 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 623 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,47
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

250 ton FC
25 ton long range communication
125 ton not used.

[Guinness]

Nobody: oh ok, I just wasn't seeing it. I believe that you need not raise one of those mounts, as B turret (or is it "Q") would be at the height of the weather deck amidships before the break.

Maddox: I think you are a torpedo bulkhead away from being on to something.

[maddox]

If you can live with a fat ship (need at least 80' of beam) I have this.

Aïsha, Ottoman coastal battleship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9.500 t light; 10.080 t standard; 10.591 t normal; 11.000 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 78,74 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 24,00 m  x 5,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (1x4 guns), 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
      16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4.151 lbs / 1.883 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   11,75 ft / 3,58 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   5,00 ft / 1,52 m
     Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9.907 shp / 7.391 Kw = 17,00 kts
   Range 4.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 920 tons

Complement:
   521 - 678

Cost:
   £1,907 million / $7,628 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 503 tons, 4,8%
   Armour: 4.284 tons, 40,5%
      - Belts: 2.028 tons, 19,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 367 tons, 3,5%
      - Armament: 542 tons, 5,1%
      - Armour Deck: 1.222 tons, 11,5%
      - Conning Tower: 125 tons, 1,2%
   Machinery: 369 tons, 3,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.943 tons, 37,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.091 tons, 10,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 3,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18.618 lbs / 8.445 Kg = 27,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 5,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,663
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Mid (50%):      11,48 ft / 3,50 m (11,15 ft / 3,40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Stern:      11,15 ft / 3,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,68 ft / 3,56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,6%
   Waterplane Area: 24.024 Square feet or 2.232 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 655 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,58
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 ton FC
25 ton long range communication
125 ton not used.

[Guinness]

Well, the indigenous designs all have a L/B ratio of 5, so this isn't that fat. But it also doesn't have a TDS. Maybe you pasted the wrong one?

[maddox]

Oeps
replaced the other one

[ledeper]

Osman, Ottoman Empire CDBb laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8.681 t light; 9.154 t standard; 9.681 t normal; 10.103 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   388,57 ft / 387,14 ft x 72,18 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
   118,44 m / 118,00 m x 22,00 m  x 5,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3.784 lbs / 1.716 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   11,09 ft / 3,38 m
   Ends:   2,00" / 51 mm   123,98 ft / 37,79 m   11,09 ft / 3,38 m
     32,84 ft / 10,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   15,49 ft / 4,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11.621 shp / 8.669 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 948 tons

Complement:
   487 - 634

Cost:
   £1,801 million / $7,202 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 473 tons, 4,9 %
   Armour: 3.843 tons, 39,7 %
      - Belts: 1.937 tons, 20,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 264 tons, 2,7 %
      - Armament: 737 tons, 7,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 808 tons, 8,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 433 tons, 4,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.432 tons, 35,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.000 tons, 10,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 5,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16.814 lbs / 7.627 Kg = 19,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 4,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,672
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,36 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Stern:      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,99 ft / 4,26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 21.840 Square feet or 2.029 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 593 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,69
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Guinness]

Ledeper: if the Ottomans were interested in contracting to build such a ship, would the ESC have capacity in 1920 or 1921 to lay it down?

[ledeper]

I have the capacity already in 20/1

[Guinness]

Sending you a pm...