Brainstorming: Introducing new player nations

[The Rock Doctor]

Since it's a topic that has come up, I thought I'd just rattle off a list of potential ways in which new player nations can be introduced, along with observations on each.  Feel free to comment, and I will amend the list as required.

1.  "Whoops, There It Is":  nation literally materializes out of thin air, replacing existing ocean and land.

-Pro:  Allows new players to generate whatever they're wanting to try
-Con:  Impossible to explain in-game except as Deus ex Machina.
-Con:  Potential disruption of existing PC territory/sea lines
      -But:  Could create new opportunities for storylines, conquests
-Con:  Potential for new PC to take advantage of existing PC unpreparedness
      -But:  New PC should, if anything, be more confused about the event than
       the existing PCs.  Especially if the existing PCs have seen this before.

2.  "The Mists of Time Slip Away":  A previously unapproachable part of the world becomes accessible, and is revealed to have a new player nation (!)

-Pro:  Again, gives new player much flexibility
-Pro:  Existing PCs aware of the "Mists", can deploy tripwire forces to keep an eye on things.
-Con:  Impossible to explain in-game except as Deus ex Machina.
-Con:  Potential for new PC to take advantage of existing PC unpreparedness
      -But:  New PC should be just as cluelesssed about the what's on the other
        side of the "Mists", and no better prepared to take advantage of it.

3.  "A Blank is Filled In":  Non-PC areas of the world are broadly defined in terms of maximum HBP/MBP/MP, but nothing else is known until a new PC nation reaches out.

-Pro:  Again, gives new player much flexibility
     -But:  not as much as other options might
-Pro:  Potentially explainable without Deus ex Machina
     -But:  It may not be easy
-Pro:  Existing PCs have a broad sense of what might be there, and can deploy/fortify as desired
-Con:  New PC might have unbalancing advanced tech
    -But:  Moderator can mitigate this during player creation
    -And:  If present in reasonable levels, it can trigger new stories

4.  "It's Always Been There":  NPCs are pre-defined, and can be activated by new players

-Pro:  Existing PCs know a fair bit about the new PC's general capability and culture
       -But:  New player's flexibility is limited, and new country concepts not easily introduced
-Con:  New PCs might bring along new tech as activated
       -But:  Moderator can allow affected existing PCs "latent" knowledge and limited
        counter-measures "that were in storage", ie, compensatory resources.


What am I forgetting?
       

[P3D]

As most people are for a more-or-less continuation of the game, what should we change?

With keeping the current map and boundaries, there's indeed very little room for new players. Borys and me already started to work on a slightly more consistent world, and most countries can be transferred with some modifications (and compromises), but as countries are smaller, there are several new countries to play with (20-25 countries available to play with).

The problem with a fantasy world that is much different than ours is that the distribution of natural resources is unknown, and people would get upset if someone has resources while others do not.

[swamphen]

1. Ah, the "Mosaic Earth" effect. Could be workable.

2. A little too fantasy-like for my taste, really.

3. On a planet size=Earth I don't really see this being feasible after the early/mid 1800s. The more I think about it the more I think that Ithekro's size=>Earth idea has merit.

4. The most workable situation for an Earth analogue, IMHO.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
4
Borys

[swamphen]

If we're transferring over the old nations and continuing, I'll only be retaining the DKB - adding the CSA, I'm afraid, wound up falling into the "it seemed like a good idea at the time" category, so a new player starting 1/1/05 would have to be found for it.

Now then, if we wind up rebooting, there's this old idea of mine for the Imperial Mozambican Empire I could dust off...  ;D

[Ithekro]

I'm for method number 3 but we'll have to reorder the planet to "create new lands" that have always been there just not explored.  This also can run in the possible exploration edge of things...new colonies, dangers, natives, and then later you can have a new PC take a nation just beyond the new colony as a "first contact" kind of thing.

Also allows for lots of coaling stations from Asia to the Americas...little specks of knowns in the now "Great Unknown".  Good place for rumors and "lost civilizations".

[P3D]

You will end up modifying the world to some extent, anything you do...

[Borys]

Ahoj!
With the CSA freed, the list of available powers is indeed short:
- CSA
- Italy
- Caliphate
- Baltic League
- Netherlands
- Mughals
- the unpronouncable gits where Britain should be
- USA
- Russia

This is almost ten. Lets start worrying after we find players for these.
Cymru and Russia could be broken up, or toned down.

I would not like a revolution, maybe some small amalgations or splits.

Borys

[Ithekro]

Well if we did add more lands on an enlarged Earth we could set resources at the beginning, or have that be a part of nation generation points (or moderator rolled control in a style like the board game Imperialism).  Resources are generally defined by the land, not the nation controlling it.  It will take some work, but I'm sure there are people and program capable of generating what we'd need.  Or we can place a land grafted map (like Atlantis in Wesworld) and keep what land masses look "correct".  If I remember our Navalsim start, we created our "fantsy" nations and then Rocky placed them roughly for us.  We then played with our borders for proper fits if needed.  Real nations got to keep theireolder specs, which is why Russia was a powerhouse.  This wouldn't be much different, we just need to follow a logical pattern as the world would still be "real" in terms of the laws of physics....aside from the improbably large Earth-like world....

I'd wonder about the gravity, but that could lead into the airships and things from recent memory.

[P3D]

Some Physics...

Acceleration = gamma (Grav. constant) x Mass of Earth /radius ^ 2 = gamma x (4/3) x density x radius ^3 /R^2 = gamma x density x R.

So if we decrease the average density of the Earth from 5.5 to 5, we can increase Radius by 10%, and available surface by 20%. Decreasing Density to 4.5 (accepting considerably lower mineral abundance) would result in 40% larger surface area.

[Ithekro]

So while a Jupiter sized Earth might be impractical, a larger one is possible, though believable is up to us to order the world in a proper fashion.  I'd suggest expanding the Pacific so that the majority of known history can work as most of our recorded history involves Europe/Middle East and China...most of this doesn't need cross Pacific travel.  And the expanded ocean is crossable....just it will take a lot longer to circumnavigate the globe....and there could be many continents and islands to run into.

[swamphen]

Some Physics...

Acceleration = gamma (Grav. constant) x Mass of Earth /radius ^ 2 = gamma x (4/3) x density x radius ^3 /R^2 = gamma x density x R.

:-\

So if we decrease the average density of the Earth from 5.5 to 5, we can increase Radius by 10%, and available surface by 20%. Decreasing Density to 4.5 (accepting considerably lower mineral abundance) would result in 40% larger surface area.

Hmm...might be workable.
(Whether DKB, Mozambique, or "here be Zulus", that would reduce those Zambian copper deposits...but 'largest in the world' would still be 'largest in the world'.  ;D )

Of course an enlarged planet would necessitate a complete reboot.

[P3D]

I am for a complete reboot, with the possibility of transferring as much of the old sim as possible.

[P3D]

Merged with the similar thread.

[swamphen]

I am for a complete reboot, with the possibility of transferring as much of the old sim as possible.

OK, but as I said in a reboot scenario I'd prefer to start from scratch instead of porting the DKB.