Re: Netherlands design study for 1921 program

[damocles]

The Maori, who design their gun mounts as full enclosures as protection against the storms of the Antarctic Sea, use 10mm plate for the entire gunhouse.

K-class (Improved I class., Holland  torpedojager laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,589 t standard; 1,877 t normal; 2,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m  x 3.70 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,613 shp / 19,107 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 517 tons

Complement:
   142 - 185

Cost:
   £0.522 million / $2.087 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 70 tons, 3.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 59 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 737 tons, 39.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 532 tons, 28.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 377 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     494 lbs / 224 Kg = 4.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Stern:      10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.22 ft / 3.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,163 Square feet or 758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 180 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.86
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

84 tons   available                 
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons     
Misc.                           10 tons 
1. With weatherhouse.
2. Long range.
=========================================
2. Radar experiments;


http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/deflating-british-radar-myths-of-world-war-ii.html/comment-page-1

Incredibly, in 1904 a German inventor, Christian Hülsmeyer, was granted a British patent for a telemobiloscope, which was a "hertzian-wave projecting and receiving apparatus...to give warning of the presence of a metallic body such as a ship or a train." On the morning of 10 May 1904, at the Rhine bridge in Cologne, he successfully demonstrated his apparatus. With rave reviews from the press, technical representatives from various shipping companies observed a convincing display of this new technology. He proved that a ship fitted with this system of transmitter and receiver could locate another ship and inform the captain of the approach of another vessel up to 5 kilometres away.

What is evident is that you have a blob detector of sorts to 5000 meters at least.  Its not a fire control radar, but it will warn you out to maximum 1915 torpedo range that something is out there moving towards you.  That is still useful in confined waters, I think.  

D.

[Sachmle]

You need more beam. The recoil is 1.40. I don't think you can put 3x2x15cm on a 1,500t DD. You may have to wait until the 2,000t DD tech is finished.

[Sachmle]

I don't think you can put 3x2x15cm on a 1,500t DD.

I stand corrected.

Export #11, Niederlande Zestörer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,584 t standard; 1,724 t normal; 1,836 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.69 ft / 387.96 ft x 38.81 ft x 9.74 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 118.25 m x 11.83 m  x 2.97 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 596 lbs / 270 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,000 shp / 22,380 Kw = 31.34 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 252 tons

Complement:
   133 - 173

Cost:
   £0.530 million / $2.118 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 761 tons, 44.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 567 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 224 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     405 lbs / 184 Kg = 3.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 80
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (31 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.12 ft / 4.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,332 Square feet or 867 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.81
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

25t 1915 "RADAR"
25t ASW Gear
24t 8 3t 1918 Torpedoes
10t Reserve Weight

[Desertfox]

You do know, that you should stop helping our mutual enemy?

[Sachmle]

You do know, that you should stop helping our mutual enemy?

But it's more fun to shoot at good ships than bad ships. Plus he's new, I people helped me when I was new.

[damocles]

This is the best I get @ 12/9000 so far.

K-class (Improved I class., Holland  torpedojager laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,589 t standard; 1,877 t normal; 2,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armour deck: 0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,613 shp / 19,107 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 517 tons

Complement:
   142 - 185

Cost:
   £0.522 million / $2.087 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 70 tons, 3.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 59 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 737 tons, 39.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 532 tons, 28.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 377 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 84 tons, 4.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     494 lbs / 224 Kg = 4.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.411
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Stern:      10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.22 ft / 3.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,163 Square feet or 758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 37 lbs/sq ft or 180 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.86
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

80 tons   available                  
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons      
Misc.                           26 tons  
=================================================

As the point of the design is to operate with the capital ships, it is a little slow, but look how much ocean I have to cover.........

Ever wonder why the Americans broke off their pursuits of beaten Japanese fleets?

Ran out of fuel. The Japanese had longer legged destroyers.  The Americans were always refueling. destroyers at sea from their carriers. Coral Sea and Santa Cruz it bit them in the tail as the Japanese caught them at reduced speed and tied to their speed restricted destroyers  (20 knots to conserve destroyer's  fuel).

One of the reasons the Wasp was sunk was because she charged ahead of her reduced speed flank destroyers to launch aircraft and the I boat got an easy open flank shot at her and the other heavies with her.  
==============================================
2000 ton destroyer will make things both easier and harder I think.

By the way Sechmle (and others, Jef, P3, Guiness, Maddox, et al, thanks for the advice and comments. These tutorials help a lot and I appreciate it. ;D

===========================

D      

[Sachmle]

Try it without the 10mm(useless/unneeded) deck armor.

[Borys]

Ahoj!

The Maori, who design their gun mounts as full enclosures as protection against the storms of the Antarctic Sea, use 10mm plate for the entire gunhouse.

Sensible fellows, those Maoris ...
Borys

[Sachmle]

Ahoj!

The Maori, who design their gun mounts as full enclosures as protection against the storms of the Antarctic Sea, use 10mm plate for the entire gunhouse.

Sensible fellows, those Maoris ...
Borys

IDK? They like to use 15cm/5.9" guns on DDs (Very slow RoF for anti-DD work) AND they enclose the mount, even farther lowering said miserable RoF.

[damocles]

Try it without the 10mm(useless/unneeded) deck armor.

K-class (Improved I class., Holland  torpedojager laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,469 t light; 1,558 t standard; 1,842 t normal; 2,070 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,221 shp / 18,815 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 512 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.516 million / $2.066 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 729 tons, 39.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 554 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 373 tons, 20.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 98 tons, 5.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     496 lbs / 225 Kg = 4.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.403
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.11 ft / 4.30 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Stern:      10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.25 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,125 Square feet or 755 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 0.91
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

90 tons   available                  
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons
Misc.#                           16 tons

# Depth charges or mines.

===========================================================

AND still more tweaking.

K-class (Improved I class., Holland  torpedojager laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,497 t light; 1,586 t standard; 1,874 t normal; 2,103 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m  x 3.70 m

Armament:
     6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
     16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,576 shp / 19,080 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 517 tons

Complement:
   142 - 185

Cost:
   £0.524 million / $2.095 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 744 tons, 39.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 568 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 376 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 98 tons, 5.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     510 lbs / 231 Kg = 5.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.410
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.11 ft / 4.30 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Stern:      10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.25 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,159 Square feet or 758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 0.92
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

90 tons   available                  
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons
Misc.#                           16 tons

# Depth charges or mines.

========================================

I think I like the second one better.  That extra knot and a half of speed robs me of half my range and most of my stablity. I can't seem to get a steady gun platform result until around 300 tons, certainly not at thirty knots. This ship sure will explode nicely if it ever gets hit with a couple of 6" straddles. But then its a destroyer. Its not supposed to survive cruiser guns, is it?  

D.    

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Is the 6" "fixed case" or "separate"?
Borys

[Borys]

Ahoj!

Ahoj!

The Maori, who design their gun mounts as full enclosures as protection against the storms of the Antarctic Sea, use 10mm plate for the entire gunhouse.

Sensible fellows, those Maoris ...
Borys

IDK? They like to use 15cm/5.9" guns on DDs (Very slow RoF for anti-DD work) AND they enclose the mount, even farther lowering said miserable RoF.

Nobody's perfect ... the Habsburgs feel a Communion of the Spirit when they look at how the Maoris throw armour plate at everything ...
Borys

[Sachmle]

K-class (Improved I class., Holland  torpedojager laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1,497 t light; 1,586 t standard; 1,874 t normal; 2,103 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 33.46 ft x 12.14 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 10.20 m - If you make this 12.00 m it will be better I think  x 3.70 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells - I think Korped used 45.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
      16 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 619 lbs / 281 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,576 shp / 19,080 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 517 tons

Complement:
   142 - 185

Cost:
   £0.524 million / $2.095 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 744 tons, 39.7 % - Still too light IMHO
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 568 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 376 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 98 tons, 5.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     510 lbs / 231 Kg = 5.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.00 - Beam increase needed to lower this
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.410
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.11 ft / 4.30 m (10.83 ft / 3.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Stern:      10.83 ft / 3.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.25 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,159 Square feet or 758 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53 - Over built
      - Longitudinal: 0.92
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

90 tons   available                 
1915 radar                25 tons
1918 toepedoes      24 tons
ASW gear.                 25 tons
Misc.#                           16 tons

# Depth charges or mines.

[Sachmle]

Ahoj!

Ahoj!

The Maori, who design their gun mounts as full enclosures as protection against the storms of the Antarctic Sea, use 10mm plate for the entire gunhouse.

Sensible fellows, those Maoris ...
Borys

IDK? They like to use 15cm/5.9" guns on DDs (Very slow RoF for anti-DD work) AND they enclose the mount, even farther lowering said miserable RoF.

Nobody's perfect ... the Habsburgs feel a Communion of the Spirit when they look at how the Maoris throw armour plate at everything ...
Borys

Of course they armor everything, they live near the Swiss.  ;)

[TexanCowboy]

I'm still not getting the radar on destroyers in 1918. Extremely un-realistic, considering the first use of radar on destroyers was in the late 1930s.