Re: Netherlands design study for 1921 program

[P3D]

The ship is too narrow, and by SS2 calculations the machinery spaces would take up all the below water volume and then some, requiring a belt longer than the ship.

Limit overall length to 170m (lvl 2 drydock length). L:B in your case is 13:1, rules allow only 12:1 and it is unnecessary to have it higher than 10:1 on a 30kts ship. Increase beam and draught (B:D ratio should be around 2.5-3). You can have lower block coefficient than 0.550.

AA guns should be single mounts, twin mounts are too early.
Main guns in deck mount& hoists might be lighter, but I'd have no problem with the turreted mounts.

[damocles]

The ship is too narrow, and by SS2 calculations the machinery spaces would take up all the below water volume and then some, requiring a belt longer than the ship.

Limit overall length to 170m (lvl 2 drydock length). L:B in your case is 13:1, rules allow only 12:1 and it is unnecessary to have it higher than 10:1 on a 30kts ship. Increase beam and draught (B:D ratio should be around 2.5-3). You can have lower block coefficient than 0.550.

AA guns should be single mounts, twin mounts are too early.
Main guns in deck mount& hoists might be lighter, but I'd have no problem with the turreted mounts.

I'll try that.

[The Rock Doctor]

You've still got a torpedo bulkhead in there - I think it probably doubles the necessary length of protection.

[damocles]

RFS Talman, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7,550 t light; 7,831 t standard; 8,492 t normal; 9,022 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   558.61 ft / 547.90 ft x 55.12 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
   170.26 m / 167.00 m x 16.80 m  x 7.50 m

Armament:
     10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,274 lbs / 578 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   547.90 ft / 167.00 m   8.96 ft / 2.73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   547.90 ft / 167.00 m   17.55 ft / 5.35 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 58,501 shp / 43,641 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,191 tons

Complement:
   442 - 575

Cost:
   £1.742 million / $6.968 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 159 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 1,859 tons, 21.9 %
      - Belts: 250 tons, 2.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 700 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armament: 196 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 677 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,045 tons, 24.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,136 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 943 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,593 lbs / 4,351 Kg = 93.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,589 Square feet or 1,727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 475 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

350 tons misc.
Fitted for 1912 fire control   100.
Fitted for 1915 radar.             25
Fitted for 1918 torpedoes.    16
Fitted for radio.                        25
Fitted for ASW                       100
Fitted with spare                     85
Note: design based on the I class torpedojager, scaled up to kruiser dimensions.

With bulkhead.

RFS Talman, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7,550 t light; 7,831 t standard; 8,492 t normal; 9,022 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   558.61 ft / 547.90 ft x 55.12 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
   170.26 m / 167.00 m x 16.80 m  x 7.50 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,274 lbs / 578 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.38" / 35 mm   547.90 ft / 167.00 m   8.96 ft / 2.73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   547.90 ft / 167.00 m   17.55 ft / 5.35 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 58,501 shp / 43,641 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,191 tons

Complement:
   442 - 575

Cost:
   £1.742 million / $6.968 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 159 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 1,859 tons, 21.9 %
      - Belts: 250 tons, 2.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 700 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armament: 196 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 677 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,045 tons, 24.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,136 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 943 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,593 lbs / 4,351 Kg = 93.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 153.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,589 Square feet or 1,727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 475 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

350 tons misc.
Fitted for 1912 fire control   100.
Fitted for 1915 radar.             25
Fitted for 1918 torpedoes.    16
Fitted for radio.                        25
Fitted for ASW                       100
Fitted with spare                     85
Note: design based on the I class torpedojager, scaled up to kruiser dimensions.



RFS Talman, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7,550 t light; 7,831 t standard; 8,492 t normal; 9,022 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   558.61 ft / 547.90 ft x 55.12 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
   170.26 m / 167.00 m x 16.80 m  x 7.50 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,274 lbs / 578 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.13" / 105 mm   347.77 ft / 106.00 m   8.96 ft / 2.73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 58,501 shp / 43,641 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,191 tons

Complement:
   442 - 575

Cost:
   £1.742 million / $6.968 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 159 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 1,862 tons, 21.9 %
      - Belts: 535 tons, 6.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,015 tons, 12.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 35 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,045 tons, 24.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,134 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 943 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,275 lbs / 4,207 Kg = 90.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.04 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,589 Square feet or 1,727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 474 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

350 tons misc.
Fitted for 1912 fire control   100.
Fitted for 1915 radar.             25
Fitted for 1918 torpedoes.    16
Fitted for radio.                        25
Fitted for ASW                       100
Fitted with spare                     85
Note: design based on the I class torpedojager, scaled up to kruiser dimensions.

Without bulkhead.

[Sachmle]

You need more hull volume. Deeper or longer, and with a L:B ratio over 12(Which is illegal btw) I'd say width.

[The Rock Doctor]

L:B looks okay, at least in the last design.  It's a higher BC that is needed, as it has fine destroyer lines at the moment.

[Sachmle]

Didn't realize there were 5 designs in one post...confusing.

[damocles]

RFS Talman, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   9,896 t light; 10,227 t standard; 10,974 t normal; 11,571 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.89 ft / 521.65 ft x 55.77 ft x 23.79 ft (normal load)
   162.73 m / 159.00 m x 17.00 m  x 7.25 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,274 lbs / 578 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   492.13 ft / 150.00 m   8.96 ft / 2.73 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 145 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   492.13 ft / 150.00 m   17.55 ft / 5.35 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 75,142 shp / 56,056 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,344 tons

Complement:
   535 - 696

Cost:
   £2.158 million / $8.634 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 159 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 2,893 tons, 26.4 %
      - Belts: 684 tons, 6.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 629 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armament: 424 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,114 tons, 10.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,627 tons, 23.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,817 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,078 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,960 lbs / 5,878 Kg = 125.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.555
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   25.43 ft / 7.75 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   18.86 ft / 5.75 m
      - Stern:      17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.53 ft / 6.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 145.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,400 Square feet or 1,895 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 499 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 2.17
      - Overall: 1.06
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

350 tons misc.
Fitted for 1912 fire control   100.
Fitted for 1915 radar.             25
Fitted for 1918 torpedoes.    16
Fitted for radio.                        25
Fitted for ASW                       100
Fitted with spare                     85
Note: design based on the I class torpedojager, scaled up to kruiser dimensions.

I'm going to keep trying until I get it right.

This is a rather heavily armored light cruiser. 

[Sachmle]

1. TDS don't belong on CLs anyway, but don't even work if your beam is less than 80'/24m.
2. Turret/barbette isn't necessary for 6"/15cm twins. Mount and hoist is fine and usual.
3. 3"/75mm decks are for CAs, not CLs. 1"/25mm is fine.
4. 4"/100mm all around armor is too much for a 6"/15cm gun. 2"/50mm face w/ 1"/25mm sides/roof is fine.
5. What do you need 100t ASW? That's 3000 Depth Charges and CLs don't do ASW anyway, DDs do.

Try this:

Export #9, Niederlande Torpedokreuzer laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,054 t standard; 8,792 t normal; 9,382 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.73 ft / 551.18 ft x 61.22 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 18.66 m  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,222 lbs / 554 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   441.11 ft / 134.45 m   12.93 ft / 3.94 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 82,000 shp / 61,172 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,328 tons

Complement:
   453 - 590

Cost:
   £2.048 million / $8.193 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 159 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 972 tons, 11.1 %
      - Belts: 456 tons, 5.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 77 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 411 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,867 tons, 32.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,502 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,092 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.3 %
        100t 1912 FC
        25t Long Range Markoni
        25t 1915 Sehendes Auge
        16t 8 21" 1913 Torpedoes
        34t Construction Reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,894 lbs / 3,581 Kg = 76.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.60 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.92 ft / -1.50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.07 ft / 8.25 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Mid (53 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m (18.04 ft / 5.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.98 ft / 6.40 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,593 Square feet or 2,099 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Guinness]

5. What do you need 100t ASW? That's 3000 Depth Charges and CLs don't do ASW anyway, DDs do.

Actually, it's 300 depth charges, but your point stands. If anyone might be thinking about DCs on cruisers, it could be the Dutch (or the DKB), though.

[Sachmle]

If anyone might be thinking about DCs on cruisers, it could be the Dutch (or the DKB), though.

Not me. My Kleiner Kreuzers have a habit of getting shot in the upper works and I don't want sympathetic detonation of depth charges to ever have to be listed as a cause of loss for anything over 2500t. (Future DDLs and all)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The problem is the Torpedo Bulkhead. In such a small ship it not only is useless, but it also leads to the Main Belt to be longer than the ship, as the engine spaces and magazines are squeezed into a thin ribbon.
I personally do not bother with TBS in ships smaller than c.20K.
Borys

[damocles]

5. What do you need 100t ASW? That's 3000 Depth Charges and CLs don't do ASW anyway, DDs do.

Actually, it's 300 depth charges, but your point stands. If anyone might be thinking about DCs on cruisers, it could be the Dutch (or the DKB), though.

1. ASW gear in this case would be sound gear and DC rails. The same rails could also be used to lay chain moored mines. I figured at least 1 ton per charge/mine which is more of less what a thrower or roll rack would weigh in addition to the 100 charges carried, plus the sound gear.

2. As for sympathetic detonation, the same danger comes from torpedoes and ready magazines. (Hood and Mutsu notorious examples). I would be worried about a surface action going into it with mines or depth charges, but as an escort for a frigate, a TK would need the sound gear.      

3. With permission, Sechmle, I would like to borrow that design?

In the meantime:

RFS Dandal, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1920

Displacement:
   4,712 t light; 4,882 t standard; 5,244 t normal; 5,534 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   470.03 ft / 459.32 ft x 44.29 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   143.26 m / 140.00 m x 13.50 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 741 lbs / 336 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 49,457 shp / 36,895 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 653 tons

Complement:
   307 - 400

Cost:
   £1.146 million / $4.584 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 93 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 309 tons, 5.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 27 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 263 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,729 tons, 33.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,231 tons, 42.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 532 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 6.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,372 lbs / 1,983 Kg = 42.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.85
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.37 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (26.25 ft / 8.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.98 ft / 6.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,198 Square feet or 1,319 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 372 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.87
      - Longitudinal: 3.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

350 toms misc.
1912 fire control
1915 radar
Radio
1913/1918 torpedoes.
ASW gear

I think I can build that.

Along with Sechmle's design, that should work in the roll of the light cruisers I need.

As for the destroyers, I think I'll just update the designs I have.

D

[damocles]

OK class, Holland Submarine laid down 1950

Displacement:
   750 t light; 769 t standard; 830 t normal; 880 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   150.00 ft / 150.00 ft x 23.00 ft (Bulges 27.00 ft) x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   45.72 m / 45.72 m x 7.01 m (Bulges 8.23 m)  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 9 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   5 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   150.00 ft / 45.72 m   5.37 ft / 1.64 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 1 shaft, 1,607 shp / 1,199 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 111 tons

Complement:
   76 - 100

Cost:
   £0.264 million / $1.058 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 121 tons, 14.6 %
      - Belts: 119 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 38 tons, 4.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 188 tons, 22.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 80 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 48.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68 lbs / 31 Kg = 3.3 x 3.5 " / 88 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.68
   Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 25.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.449
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13.47 ft / 4.11 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   8.57 ft / 2.61 m
      - Mid (50 %):      8.57 ft / 2.61 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.57 ft / 2.61 m
      - Stern:      8.57 ft / 2.61 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.96 ft / 2.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 146.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 45.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,094 Square feet or 195 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 6.00
      - Overall: 1.04
   Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

750 tom class 1915 onderseeboot. 



 


D.

[Logi]

Submarines do not need to be designed, all stats are taken from the tech table.