Netherlands design study for 1917 program

[damocles]

RFS Flevoland, Holland Battleship laid down 1916 (Engine 1913)

Displacement:
   26,635 t light; 27,902 t standard; 29,267 t normal; 30,359 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   645.75 ft / 645.75 ft x 90.60 ft x 28.75 ft (normal load)
   196.82 m / 196.82 m x 27.61 m  x 8.76 m

Armament:
     3 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
     3 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
     6 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x3 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     6 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2 mounts), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft, 4 raised guns - superfiring
     8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 11,653 lbs / 5,286 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   235.00 ft / 71.63 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
     0.75 ft / 0.23 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6.10" / 155 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   5th:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 101,627 shp / 75,814 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,457 tons

Complement:
   1,118 - 1,454

Cost:
   £4.440 million / $17.760 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,457 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 8,684 tons, 29.7 %
      - Belts: 3,361 tons, 11.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 806 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 1,918 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,357 tons, 8.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 242 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,982 tons, 13.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,462 tons, 42.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,632 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,460 lbs / 16,538 Kg = 21.8 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (67 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.09 ft / 7.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,150 Square feet or 4,009 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 972 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Fitted with 1915 radar. The 100 mm AAA guns are foreign purchase. Ship is offered for export.

================================

modified to correct mistakes.

D.

[damocles]

RFS ROTTERDAM, HOLLAND PANZERKRUIZER laid down 1917 (Engine 1913)

Displacement:
   17,793 t light; 18,669 t standard; 20,051 t normal; 21,157 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   583.11 ft / 547.90 ft x 81.20 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   177.73 m / 167.00 m x 24.75 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
     3 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (1x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
     3 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (1x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
     6 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x3 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     3 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x3 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft
     8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5,285 lbs / 2,397 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     39.37 ft / 12.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   22.97 ft / 7.00 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   4th:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

  - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 86,681 shp / 64,664 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,488 tons

Complement:
   842 - 1,095

Cost:
   £3.006 million / $12.024 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 661 tons, 3.3 %
   Armour: 5,963 tons, 29.7 %
      - Belts: 2,471 tons, 12.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 401 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 1,155 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,779 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 157 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,397 tons, 16.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,673 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,258 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,265 lbs / 12,367 Kg = 40.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.601
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Stern:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,570 Square feet or 3,026 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Fitted with 1915 radar. The AAA 100mm guns are foreign purchase. Available for export.

[Jefgte]

Main armament forward...
like Richelieu & Rodney

...Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces...

So, increase the lenght

- deck armor is identical for the BB & the BC...

...


Jef  ;)

[damocles]

D100, Holland torpedokruizer laid down 1916 (Engine 1915)

Displacement:
   2,414 t light; 2,495 t standard; 2,736 t normal; 2,929 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.06 ft / 380.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   119.80 m / 115.82 m x 12.80 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (1x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (1x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (1x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
   Weight of broadside 394 lbs / 179 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 36,170 shp / 26,983 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 435 tons

Complement:
   188 - 245

Cost:
   £0.491 million / $1.963 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 49 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 238 tons, 8.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 37 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 197 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,243 tons, 45.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 864 tons, 31.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 322 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,122 lbs / 509 Kg = 21.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.64

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m before break)
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.45 ft / 6.23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,634 Square feet or 988 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 81 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 192 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 3.02
      - Overall: 0.59
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


The kruizer and the panzerschip are intended as design studies to fit the needs for a potential customer. The deck armor can only be so  thick on that displacement and speed given our tech limits.  

D.  

[Nobody]

You should (re)check your available engine techs as a 1915 doesn't exist (as far as I know). These are the most probable ones:

1909: Engine year 1912, Max. non-VTE power 20,000 HP/Shaft
1913: Engine year 1916, Max. non-VTE power 35,000 HP/Shaft

About the torpedocruiser, even if you could build a 2500 t ship to DD rules (which you can't, you are probably limited to 1000 or 1500 tons) its hull strength is still too low because the "cross-sectional" value has to be at least 0.5.

[eltf177]

Also, Fire Control requires 250 tons miscellaneous weight which neither design has.

[Desertfox]

Triple 6" mounts are not allowed yet.

Diesel electric on all ships?

[damocles]

Triple 6" mounts are not allowed yet.

Diesel electric on all ships?

BB/AC Architecture - Main battery in turrets
1880: Main guns in twin turrets, secondaries in casemate
1890: Mixed main armament or AQY with double turrets+casemates
1904: All-big-gun ship with wing turrets, superfiring turrets (restricted axial firing arcs), improved turret hydraulics, Torpedo Bulkheads
1906: Superfiring turrets (unrestricted firing arcs), triple turrets
1912: Quadruple turrets
1920:  No restriction (high or low) on caliber of turreted guns

Real world engineering.

Diesels can be installed as free cylinder assembles which means you can upgrade or repair engines without razing the hull. Diesel electrics mean you can scatter the engines low in the hull and MACK the exhaust so not revealing your position through a smoke column. Alternatively by putting a sulfur burner in the MACK you can lay thick smoke.  Heavy naval oil likes diesels. You have to burn the oil separately to boil distilled water to turn steam turbines. A two step work transfer that does not allow for as efficient work output as final shaft torque as opposed to diesel electrics  Smaller volume footprint for diesels as well means more crew and other systems space. Diesels only take minutes to work up to full power. Steam plant takes hours. Diesel electrics also mean short shaft runs. Plus a diesel generator plant can be compartmentalized, while geared drive turbines cannot be. Diesels are more fuel efficient than turbines. You can use electric motors for every gun turret and fore control director as well as steering control. This is simplest with an electric drive ship that already us set up for load sharing through a bus network. No hydraulics fires, no steam lines, if an electric  cable is hit, jump it out and battle short your way through an action. A steam driven warship may lose ;power when her funnels are shot out and only some of her boilers are riddled because you cannot unit the plant. You have to direct hit every D/E generator to mobility kill a D/E warship. MODULAR design unit machinery.  Net result? A ship that looks something like this.  



Uploaded with ImageShack.us      

D.

[Guinness]

Diesel electric capital ships would be ok I think, if your nation has both capital ship diesel propulsion, and turbo electric propulsion (which probably ought to just be "electric transmission" or some such).

Triple secondaries: secondary batteries are controlled by a nation's cruiser tech level. This is confusing, I'll agree. So in order to ship triple secondaries, one has to develop a cruiser tech that includes them. We don't have that tech on our tree at the moment. Mods will discuss what year we'll introduce it.

It is important to note this blurb as well:

Secondaries are 4-7" guns. 8-10" medium-caliber guns are not secondaries, but medium-caliber main guns

And yes, that means that by rule it would be possible to ship 8 inch and larger guns in triple turrets but not smaller guns. Again, I acknowledge this doesn't make sense, and we'll discuss it.

[damocles]

 ???

RFS ROTTERDAM, HOLLAND PANZERKRUIZER laid down 1917 (Engine 1913)

Displacement:
   18,263 t light; 19,150 t standard; 20,051 t normal; 20,772 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   583.11 ft / 547.90 ft x 81.20 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   177.73 m / 167.00 m x 24.75 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      3 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (1x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
      3 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (1x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.82kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      8 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (4x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5,399 lbs / 2,449 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     39.37 ft / 12.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.11 ft / 125.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   22.97 ft / 7.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      5.91" / 150 mm
   4th:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 86,681 shp / 64,664 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,623 tons

Complement:
   842 - 1,095

Cost:
   £3.058 million / $12.230 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 675 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 6,130 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 2,471 tons, 12.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 401 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 1,322 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,779 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 157 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,397 tons, 16.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,761 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,788 tons, 8.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,419 lbs / 11,984 Kg = 39.4 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.601
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Stern:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,570 Square feet or 3,026 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 764 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.37
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Fitted with 1915 radar. The AAA 100mm guns are foreign purchase. Available for export.

[damocles]

RFS Flevoland, Holland Battleship laid down 1916 (Engine 1915)

Displacement:
   30,177 t light; 31,512 t standard; 32,679 t normal; 33,613 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   645.75 ft / 645.75 ft x 90.60 ft x 28.75 ft (normal load)
   196.82 m / 196.82 m x 27.61 m  x 8.76 m

Armament:
     3 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
     3 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
     8 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (4x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
     4 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 11,653 lbs / 5,286 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   459.32 ft / 140.00 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
     88.01 ft / 26.82 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   5th:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 112,149 shp / 83,663 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,101 tons

Complement:
   1,214 - 1,579

Cost:
   £4.704 million / $18.815 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,457 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 11,429 tons, 35.0 %
      - Belts: 3,260 tons, 10.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 806 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 2,070 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,032 tons, 15.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 260 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,248 tons, 13.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,743 tons, 39.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,503 tons, 7.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,542 lbs / 19,750 Kg = 26.0 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.86
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.680
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (67 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.46 ft / 7.45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,059 Square feet or 4,279 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 935 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.85
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Fitted with 1915 radar. The AAA 100 mm guns are all foreign purchased by buyer. Available for export.

Now then, the torpedo cruiser needs work.

RFS Jakarta, Holland torpedokruizer  laid down 1916 (Engine 1913)

Displacement:
   8,199 t light; 8,502 t standard; 9,161 t normal; 9,688 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   485.26 ft / 475.00 ft x 55.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   147.91 m / 144.78 m x 16.76 m (Bulges 18.29 m)  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
      2 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x2 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (2x4 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
   Weight of broadside 1,226 lbs / 556 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 6.10" / 155 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 75,225 shp / 56,118 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons

Complement:
   467 - 608

Cost:
   £1.355 million / $5.422 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 153 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 1,388 tons, 15.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 262 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,068 tons, 11.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,948 tons, 32.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,410 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 962 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,114 lbs / 3,681 Kg = 71.4 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.625
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.92 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.54 ft / 6.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,557 Square feet or 1,817 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.67
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Fitted with 1915 radar. The AAA 100mm guns are foreign purchase. Available for export.


D.

[P3D]

Weaker than the previous 8x15" fast Dutch BBs.

[mentat]

I'm inclined to agree with P3D - but like to know more on the intended role, likely opposition and design focus

- in particular they have 35% armour - with thick deck 150mm (OTT for Gunnery ranges in 1916?) and widely distributed over vertical with MB just 200 mm, UB 150mm and EB 120mm

   - I see no immunity zone vs opposing BB guns at normal battle ranges

     a 12-14" MB - would be more normal - and useful??

  Also - range very short - all very curious ??? - can we be enlightened on intended role and likely opposition?

[P3D]

Diesel vs. steam. On one side, you have better efficiency and rage, on the other, heavier machinery (especially if you insist on electric propulsion).
SS2 does not differentiate between diesels and turbines anyways, so there's no difference in Navalism. Fdifferent machinery weights  should have been implemented in SS3 one or two years ago but that project could be considered dead, unfortunately.

Triple 6" turrets. The wording is intentional and there's only me to blame for. The rules were written as they were to prevent people building WWII ships in 1903n and  should not really not for ships laid down in 1920 Nverse. And secondaries are usually "mount and hoist" not turreted. People are pretty content with that as "deck mount" and "mount and hoist" weaponry weights are about half-third they should be.
This is about the most important correction already implemented in SS3b (heavier light weapon mount weights).

Details:
Flevoland is too fat (L:B of 7:1), to high BC (0.680), too short range, only 6 guns. BTW it looks like a 2-turret G3.
The torpedokreuzer would need at least 33kts speed IMO. They should not have 4.7" guns at all, it just confuses the spotters.

About the Dutch fleet. I think adapting to a significantly different naval philosophy would take more resources than available. Korpen's fleet was a deterrent fleet, capital ships with speed to catch cruisers, and guns to damage capital ships - with no "cruisers" built for trade protection.

[Desertfox]

Diesel electrics involve too much foresight, even if they are techniclly allowed. N ewSwitzerland which has the perfect fleet for such engines is still using turbo-electric drive. Only my destroyers use diesel electric and only for low speed maneuvers.

Your AA armament is also ridiculously heavy. Anything over a couple of 3" guns and a few MGs is overkill.

That said, New Switzerland really really likes these ships and hopes the Netherlands builds some. They seem like perfect ships for the Dutch.