New Government in Holland.

[damocles]

Its a Livens minengeweffer.



Properly emplaced and loaded, the bomb thrower can be anything including Greek Fire or some kind of incendiary that is hurled.

Specifications of projector
Shell:    Gas drum
Calibre:    125 mm
Elevation:    45 degree
Traverse:    0 degree
Maximum range:    100-1,500 m (1.5 km)
Filling:    chemical
Filling weight:    5 kg.
Detonation mechanism:    Impact
Notes: The fill is variable. Poison gas filled bottle is just one munition type.



 

[damocles]

NvR reads this in the NRDN reports.

Its started.

van Seik

[damocles]

[damocles]

NvR to Anders Wellsen: "Is it done?"
Welsen: "Hertzog said its done."

[damocles]

Being built in the near future to customer specifications due to very recent combat experience.

D.

[damocles]

For information story background. This meeting is not known to anyone; except the Dutch and the MK to this point.  

     Somewhere in central China, in a freshly tunneled excavation in a hillside, where Chinese labor drafts, under the exhortations of worker gang bosses, lay camouflaged railroad sleepers and rails from an equally camouflaged spur line, and where, nearby, under pole-supported netting that hides it from the air, a Dutch pattern 2-4-2 locomotive, with its strange flatcars, (all MK built), sits waiting to scurry into its new hardened shelter hide; a strange meet occurs.    
     For the two most influential Dutchmen in Asia, who have worked in country for what seems like years, Guntar Hertzog and Albert van Seik, just meet each other face to face for the first time.
     Hertzog road that train, as a passenger on a flatcar, out in the open, where he sat coolie style with the rest of the passengers, through the rains the wimdstorms, and hailstorms from Beijing to here, to meet van Seik, in the middle of another Dutch hell. Three years before the DKB came to the Middle Kingdom, and now the Dutch, that trip He would have been conveyed by covered oxcart or pole carriage.      
    So much had foreigner hatred and domestic envy forced this kind of change on the Middle Kingdom. The staid backward Middle Kingdom luxury that he would have previously enjoyed, given his status, made way to industrial equality for all of those classes, who were not of the aristocracy or the tenured bureaucracy. There was this no special treatment for Xirong in the Middle Kingdom now.
    Such was the legacy of the New Swiss, and now the current war. The Serene Presence called it the Great Leveling of the Masses as he explained it to the Dutch ambassador (at least that was what was what the Emperor's spokesman said. Hertzog was Xirong, so still did not merit yet a personal meeting without the interlocutory). In many ways, it frightened Hertzog to see such a Middle Kingdom change from, when he was part of the failed Dutch trade effort in 1909. He never expected such a conservative Kingdom to embrace such a radical hive-like approach now, where docile workers, servile thinkers, and the haughty privileged rulers, subsumed their individuality for the common mass goal, whatever the Serene Presence decreed that was. It was so un-Chinese to experience this machine-like approach to Human beings.  
     Hertzog walked to the tunnel entrance, just like any other coolie, who just climbed off the flatcars loaded with crates and strange machines did. He suddenly looked skyward to see what planes were above him as he heard them fly over.  
     A short man dressed in the mustard brown rubberized uniform that ALL ranks in the Middle Kingdom army now wore, regardless of class or position, came out of the artificial cave to meet him. The short man said to Hertzog: "Those are ours. They are trainers flown by new student pilots. We are too far back to see any Southerners* this far north."
     Hertzog still looks skyward, nervous: "At night, they fly?" The short man continues: "Of course at night. The enemy has almost five times as many aircraft, and pilots. Our only advantage now is that we train for night combat so that we can so fight when he can't. Same for the army. The navy?" The short man shrugs.         They walk to the cave under moonlight and rain heavy clouds.  
               
     Instant dislike of each other seems to be the order of the day.
     van Seik: "So you are the man who botched my request for Middle Kingdom built landing barges?"
     Hertzog, looking over the the short Walloon's head, replies: "I still have trouble with protocol admission to the Forbidden City, and I am still a 'guest' outside it in this nation, majoor generaal, as are you. As guests, we do not make requests, we supply assistance and advice when asked." This speech is said pleasantly, but with a great deal of hidden venom in the ambassador's voice.    
     van Seik: "Those 'requests' were the difference between 50,000 and 100,000 casualties! A lot of good men died to establish those beachheads."
Hertzog: "If I were you I would worry more about the air situation, than the beachheads."
     van Seik splutters: "You are a military expert?"
      Hertzog: "No, I am not, but so far, I don't really see why van Rijn thought you could handle this war."
     van Seik: "As you say, I am a "guest". I can only advise as to how a campaign is conducted. I don't command anything here."
Hertzog: "Off point, then. Why did you want to see me."
     van Seik hands Hertzog a sheaf of burn papers to read. Hertzog reads the ideographs, Chinese?!?!?
     Hertzog: "I can't read this!"  
     van Seik: "That list of 'requests' must be fulfilled to conduct phase  two operations. I thought that after this much time in country you would at least learn how to read simplified Manchu?"
     Hertzog: "I still can't read it."
     van Seik, irritated: "Here, let me read it too you, then."
     The little Walloon proceeds to translate into the Walloon dialect of Dutch from the Manchu, the list of things that van Seik wants Hertzog to present to the Serene Presence.  
     Hertzog: "You demand the impossible!"
     van Seik: "I just led an army that used a collection of old junks, old decrepit paddle wheel steamers and floating rafts little better than logs tied together with paper rope, across the flooded Yangtze, against an enemy that rules the air, and we crossed that river and established ourselves. Don't tell me what the Middle Kingdom can or cannot do! Get that list done!"  
    van Seik burns the list in front of Hertzog as required by Dutch military regulations. Hertzog, as a diplomat, is expected to have the ability to read or listen once and memorize contents. No paper trail exists for enemy agents to exploit.  

* Politically correct term for the RRC aggressors.

[damocles]

Note that this information is only for Holland, and her MK, Irish, Leipzig Pact, and Ottoman allies. Other nations can inquire by PM and I might explain what the heck is going on.  

RFKamt...Amsterdam

 Engineer Pavel Hund: "Have you seen what the RFK demanded we produce as a design study?"

D-III, Holland TJ 6000 laid down 1911 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   6,045 t light; 6,307 t standard; 7,284 t normal; 8,066 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   539.23 ft / 528.22 ft x 49.21 ft x 19.19 ft (normal load)
   164.36 m / 161.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.85 m

Armament:
     12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,346 lbs / 611 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   379.99 ft / 115.82 m   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.01" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.51" / 13 mm   0.51" / 13 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 42,360 shp / 31,600 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,759 tons

Complement:
   393 - 512

Cost:
   £0.589 million / $2.358 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 168 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 1,311 tons, 18.0 %
      - Belts: 674 tons, 9.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 112 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 484 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,689 tons, 23.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,627 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,239 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,466 lbs / 3,840 Kg = 82.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.44 ft / 5.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,495 Square feet or 1,625 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 90 lbs/sq ft or 439 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250
100 tons fire control
 25 tons radar
 25 tons acoustics
 25 tons radio
 50 tons torpedoes
 25 tons misc.

  Meister architect Hsien Yzu reads the specifications: "Change out the gear ratio sets, add some fuel bunkerage, complete change of armament, add radar, sonar, radio, etc.: that is 25% of the new build cost...or 1.51$ and 1.5 BP. Take all four in hand and that would be the equivalent of one new cruiser. Only problem is that they are just too slow..."

Hund: "What do you babble?"

Hsien Yzu: "The Demarce III's. I thought we were trying for the Demarce IVs, but it looks like we are going to be buying the D-IIIs."

Hund: "You are crazy! France would never sell the D-IIIs. That would be half of her effective scout cruiser force."

Hsien Yzu: "Never the less, what if we could get them?" He muses: "Nobody really knows what a complete MODERN torpedo jaeger kruizer squadron could do. This is a way to find out..."        

[damocles]

Notice that this information is internal use only and like the previous post is restricted to Holland's allies.

Admiral Schoepen looks over the decrypt.

"Too slow." he mutters.

D-III, Holland TJ 6000 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,063 t light; 6,281 t standard; 7,284 t normal; 8,087 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   540.01 ft / 528.22 ft x 49.21 ft x 19.19 ft (normal load)
   164.60 m / 161.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.85 m

Armament:
     12 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (4x3 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 826 lbs / 375 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   377.30 ft / 115.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.51" / 13 mm   0.51" / 13 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 42,360 shp / 31,600 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,806 tons

Complement:
   393 - 512

Cost:
   £1.197 million / $4.786 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 103 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 1,440 tons, 19.8 %
      - Belts: 672 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 92 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 637 tons, 8.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,481 tons, 20.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,538 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,221 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 6.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,452 lbs / 4,288 Kg = 158.6 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.30 ft / 7.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Stern:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.81 ft / 5.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,495 Square feet or 1,625 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 419 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.04
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
 25 tons radar
 25 tons acoustics
 25 tons radio
 25 tons mines
150 tons torpedoes= 1 load + 3 reloads.
100 tons misc.  

Armor deck belt is an inclined external belt

[P3D]

[ooc]
Triple "deck mounts with hoists" are questionable. The rules specify "twin mounts with hoist" for the given technology - not triples.
For triples one would need to have the tech that allow "guns in triple turrets"  or whatever it is in SS2 - but, ,specifically, the rule does dot allow triple mounts with hoists. [/ooc]

[Kaiser Kirk]

ooc : Twin 6" mounts with hoists appear to have been cramped and slow to rotate, with subsequent classes featuring barbettes. I think the rotating weight on triple 125mm or 150mm would be excessive for a deck mount, and compromise their role. Not to mention that ROF in triples is usually less than twins, which is more noticeable in these smaller guns, further diluting the value.

Also, the capital ship FC is not necessary on the D-III, Holland TJ 6000 design.

[Sachmle]

ooc : Twin 6" mounts with hoists appear to have been cramped and slow to rotate, with subsequent classes featuring barbettes. I think the rotating weight on triple 125mm or 150mm would be excessive for a deck mount, and compromise their role. Not to mention that ROF in triples is usually less than twins, which is more noticeable in these smaller guns, further diluting the value.

Also, the capital ship FC is not necessary on the D-III, Holland TJ 6000 design.

I agree on the mounts being unable to handle triples. Also, if you go to turret/barbette to handle the triples then you would need the 250t BB/AC FC you already installed.

[damocles]

D-III, Holland TJ 6000 laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,326 t light; 6,594 t standard; 7,623 t normal; 8,446 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   536.73 ft / 524.93 ft x 49.21 ft (Bulges 55.77 ft) x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   163.60 m / 160.00 m x 15.00 m (Bulges 17.00 m)  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,346 lbs / 611 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   377.30 ft / 115.00 m   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.51" / 13 mm   0.51" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 44,287 shp / 33,038 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,852 tons

Complement:
   407 - 530

Cost:
   £1.370 million / $5.479 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 168 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1,354 tons, 17.8 %
      - Belts: 671 tons, 8.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 201 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 441 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,549 tons, 20.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,755 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,297 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 6.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,994 lbs / 4,080 Kg = 87.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.30 ft / 7.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Stern:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.81 ft / 5.12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,291 Square feet or 1,606 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 455 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

500 tons misc.
250 tons fire control
  25 tons radar
  25 tons acoustics
  25 tons radio
  25 tons mines
150 tons torpedoes= 1 load + 3 reloads.
100 tons misc. 

Armor belt is an inclined external belt

"Better..." Schoepen mutters, "but still too slow. What do they expect to do with a 14 m/s kruizer when our enemies have a 2m/s speed advantage?

[Sachmle]

8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships

Anti-aircraft Guns and Directors

1903 (-1):  Machine gun caliber weapons aimed by hand and eye. Field guns firing non-AA specific ammunition.
1910 (0):  Purpose designed weapons and ammunition, including hand adjusted timed-fused shells for larger calibers, and tracers in machine guns and autocannon.
1918 (+1): Improved timed fuses. AA fire plans. Central post AA fire control.
1926 (+2): Improved ammunition supply for automatic weapons. Early AA fire control tables. Dual Purpose guns.
1936 (+3): Mature AA fire control. Radar guided AA fire control. Proximity fuses for guns larger than 75mm.

[damocles]

8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships

Anti-aircraft Guns and Directors

1903 (-1):  Machine gun caliber weapons aimed by hand and eye. Field guns firing non-AA specific ammunition.
1910 (0):  Purpose designed weapons and ammunition, including hand adjusted timed-fused shells for larger calibers, and tracers in machine guns and autocannon.
1918 (+1): Improved timed fuses. AA fire plans. Central post AA fire control.
1926 (+2): Improved ammunition supply for automatic weapons. Early AA fire control tables. Dual Purpose guns.
1936 (+3): Mature AA fire control. Radar guided AA fire control. Proximity fuses for guns larger than 75mm.

Change to AAA then until DPs come online.

=========================================================

As for the latest in Holland's pantserwagens

URL=http://img64.imageshack.us/i/nversedutchtank2.jpg/][/URL]

Clankity, clankity Brno since 1916.

[maddox]

Futuristic tank... (with a very optimistic speed for a 30 tons monster)