Ottoman Empire Coast Defense ship competition

The Rock Doctor · May 22, 2010, 08:16:22 PM

Tell me more about the twenty-barrelled machine gun...

maddox · May 22, 2010, 08:20:05 PM

Make it a 340 or 275 (280) mm quad and France will develope the turret with glee. And build the ship with the " silent diplomatic agreements"

I don't like the 12"....

Guinness · May 22, 2010, 08:20:38 PM

I always miss something. I've fixed it above.

Guinness · May 22, 2010, 08:21:29 PM

Quote from: maddox on May 22, 2010, 08:20:05 PM
Make it a 340 or 275 (280) mm quad and France will develope the turret with glee. And build the ship with the " silent diplomatic agreements"

I don't like the 12"....

It's nearing bedtime here, but I'll have to tinker with a 275mm version. Is that really 275mm or 280mm? 340, I fear, would result in maybe too big a ship. This one, as it turned out, fits in a type 1 dock, which is a nice bonus.

maddox · May 22, 2010, 08:30:47 PM

275 or 280 , just a question of bore. On such level, and it's in the rules, it's just peanuts.

Guinness · May 22, 2010, 08:31:53 PM

Quad 275mm is interesting:

Quote
Ottoman Coast Defense Ship, Ottoman Empire Coast Defense Ship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8,300 t light; 8,783 t standard; 9,210 t normal; 9,551 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 15.90 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m x 4.85 m

Armament:
4 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (1x4 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,446 lbs / 1,563 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   191.93 ft / 58.50 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 75 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   191.93 ft / 58.50 m   20.01 ft / 6.10 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      5.91" / 150 mm

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,500 shp / 8,579 Kw = 18.02 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 768 tons

Complement:
   469 - 611

Cost:
   £1.663 million / $6.653 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 420 tons, 4.6 %
   Armour: 3,177 tons, 34.5 %
     - Belts: 1,102 tons, 12.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 224 tons, 2.4 %
     - Armament: 699 tons, 7.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,041 tons, 11.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 112 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 428 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,895 tons, 42.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 910 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 379 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,056 lbs / 7,283 Kg = 25.3 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.654
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forecastle (10 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Mid (49 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (10 %):   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Stern:      7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:   11.73 ft / 3.58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,831 Square feet or 2,214 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 666 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
250t fire control
129t rudimentary tender and flag facilities

maddox · May 22, 2010, 08:38:48 PM

If it would have 22 kts, I see this as a perfect escort for the GBB's.

Guinness · May 22, 2010, 08:42:40 PM

4 knots is going to cost at least 30, probably 50 more meters, and probably 4000 tons. Might still be worth it for your purposes. Note that she has relatively low freeboard, to the point that I felt compelled to include a "superfiring" main turret. She's really just a monitor reimagined I suppose.

On the plus side, if I ever illustrated one of these, it would be U G L Y. I'm not even talking "quirky" french ugly. I'm talking really fantastically ugly.

maddox · May 22, 2010, 08:52:22 PM

Faa Di Bruno is already posted...

maddox · May 23, 2010, 08:39:42 AM

QuoteAïsha, Ottoman Monitor laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8.500 t light; 9.059 t standard; 9.485 t normal; 9.826 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 67,26 ft x 16,40 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 20,50 m x 5,00 m

Armament:
4 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (1x4 guns), 665,80lbs / 302,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships, all raised guns - superfiring
16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4.151 lbs / 1.883 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,00" / 127 mm   275,59 ft / 84,00 m   5,00 ft / 1,52 m
     Main Belt covers 108% of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm        -

- Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2.672 shp / 1.993 Kw = 12,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 767 tons

Complement:
   479 - 624

Cost:
   £1,735 million / $6,940 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 503 tons, 5,3%
   Armour: 3.930 tons, 41,4%
     - Belts: 2.045 tons, 21,6%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
     - Armament: 543 tons, 5,7%
     - Armour Deck: 1.246 tons, 13,1%
     - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 100 tons, 1,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.567 tons, 37,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 985 tons, 10,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 4,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17.081 lbs / 7.748 Kg = 25,5 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 16,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,64
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,764
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
     - Forecastle (15%):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
     - Mid (50%):      11,48 ft / 3,50 m (11,15 ft / 3,40 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   11,15 ft / 3,40 m
     - Stern:      11,15 ft / 3,40 m
     - Average freeboard:   11,32 ft / 3,45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 50,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,1%
   Waterplane Area: 22.451 Square feet or 2.086 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 623 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,43
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Guinness · May 25, 2010, 07:12:35 PM

Maddox: I've been thinking about your last design here, and I fear it would be just too slow. 12 knots would be pretty plodding with a fouled hull, against a tide or current, etc. 18 I can live with for this, but 12, not so much...

At any rate, thinking about actually building this, since no bids have been forthcoming, here's a version with tech that the Ottomans actually have. Main armament arrangement changes quite a bit, with two main turrets forward. She gains 4 more secondaries in the process, but also ~ 550 tons. I'm not happy about that, and may tinker with the hull a bit...

Quote
Ottoman Coast Defense Ship, Ottoman Empire Coast Defense Ship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8,850 t light; 9,386 t standard; 9,830 t normal; 10,186 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 16.56 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m x 5.05 m

Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
20 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,863 lbs / 1,752 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   200.46 ft / 61.10 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   200.46 ft / 61.10 m   21.00 ft / 6.40 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      4.72" / 120 mm

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,000 shp / 8,952 Kw = 18.02 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 800 tons

Complement:
   493 - 641

Cost:
   £1.852 million / $7.408 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 490 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 3,657 tons, 37.2 %
     - Belts: 1,136 tons, 11.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 307 tons, 3.1 %
     - Armament: 1,040 tons, 10.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,057 tons, 10.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 117 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 447 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,877 tons, 39.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 980 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 380 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,715 lbs / 7,582 Kg = 25.0 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.670
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Forecastle (10 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
     - Mid (60 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (10 %):   7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Stern:      7.87 ft / 2.40 m
     - Average freeboard:   12.60 ft / 3.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,185 Square feet or 2,247 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 643 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
250t fire control
130t rudimentary tender and flag facilities

Sachmle · May 25, 2010, 09:09:32 PM

Osmane-Stolz, Deutsche Reich-Export Küstenlinienschiff laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9,500 t light; 10,011 t standard; 10,520 t normal; 10,927 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 17.98 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m x 5.48 m

Armament:
6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 38.36lbs / 17.40kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5,701 lbs / 2,586 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   4 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.06" / 230 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 9.06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,500 shp / 9,325 Kw = 18.08 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 916 tons

Complement:
   519 - 675

Cost:
   £2.365 million / $9.462 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 718 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 4,118 tons, 39.1 %
     - Belts: 1,751 tons, 16.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 963 tons, 9.2 %
     - Armour Deck: 1,310 tons, 12.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 94 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 466 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,899 tons, 37.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,020 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,841 lbs / 7,185 Kg = 23.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.661
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Forecastle (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
     - Average freeboard:   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,980 Square feet or 2,228 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.82
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Nobody · May 26, 2010, 06:22:04 AM

An Orange design bureau offers the following rather large design, hoping the Ottomans participate in the current sale of shipbuilding capacity.
Ottoman export, Orange Coastal Battleship/Monitor laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   10.000 t light; 10.600 t standard; 11.033 t normal; 11.378 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,69 ft / 390,42 ft x 81,36 ft x 18,70 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 119,00 m x 24,80 m x 5,70 m

Armament:
6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
8 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 12,87lbs / 5,84kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm guns in single mounts, 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 6.583 lbs / 2.986 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,0" / 280 mm   246,39 ft / 75,10 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   0,98" / 25 mm   144,03 ft / 43,90 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Upper:   0,98" / 25 mm   246,39 ft / 75,10 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 97% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,18" / 30 mm   246,39 ft / 75,10 m   15,75 ft / 4,80 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   5,91" / 150 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0,59" / 15 mm     -           -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2,36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 12.680 shp / 9.459 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 4.480nm at 11,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 778 tons

Complement:
   537 - 699

Cost:
   £2,416 million / $9,664 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 823 tons, 7,5%
   Armour: 4.102 tons, 37,2%
     - Belts: 1.499 tons, 13,6%
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 170 tons, 1,5%
     - Armament: 1.243 tons, 11,3%
     - Armour Deck: 1.063 tons, 9,6%
     - Conning Tower: 126 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 472 tons, 4,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.303 tons, 39,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.033 tons, 9,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.471 lbs / 6.564 Kg = 16,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 3,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
   Metacentric height 5,2 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,48 ft / 0,45 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      17,06 ft / 5,20 m
     - Forecastle (20%):   14,44 ft / 4,40 m
     - Mid (50%):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     - Stern:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
     - Average freeboard:   12,37 ft / 3,77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,9%
   Waterplane Area: 24.335 Square feet or 2.261 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 702 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,53
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

damocles · May 26, 2010, 07:49:28 AM

Selim, Ottoman coast defense laid down 1920 (Engine 1913)

Displacement:
   17,224 t light; 18,243 t standard; 19,145 t normal; 19,866 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   508.84 ft / 500.00 ft x 75.00 ft (Bulges 93.00 ft) x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   155.10 m / 152.40 m x 22.86 m (Bulges 28.35 m) x 6.71 m

Armament:
8 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7,289 lbs / 3,306 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.07" / 205 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   0.28" / 7 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2.95" / 75 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   19.82 ft / 6.04 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.07" / 205 mm   6.10" / 155 mm      6.10" / 155 mm
   2nd:   6.10" / 155 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

- Armour deck: 4.13" / 105 mm, Conning tower: 8.07" / 205 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 35,456 shp / 26,450 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,623 tons

Complement:
   813 - 1,057

Cost:
   £3.694 million / $14.774 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 911 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 7,286 tons, 38.1 %
     - Belts: 2,633 tons, 13.8 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 704 tons, 3.7 %
     - Armament: 1,617 tons, 8.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,207 tons, 11.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 124 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,389 tons, 7.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,238 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,921 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,379 lbs / 16,048 Kg = 52.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 18.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 94 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.655
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      33.00 ft / 10.06 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   29.00 ft / 8.84 m
     - Mid (50 %):      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
     - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
     - Average freeboard:   27.15 ft / 8.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,859 Square feet or 2,681 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Gun tech is Ottoman.
1. Fitted for 1912 FCS, postfit as soon as developed.
2. Fitted for 1913 torpedoes.

Technically a bit large, but the customer has the option of barrel refit and fire control upgrades with this design. Also must be pointed out that with an emerging torpedo boat threat, that a torpedo defense might be something to consider in a future coast defense ship?

Guinness · May 26, 2010, 09:07:51 AM

Damocles: true. I think that ship is too big for this niche though. That's really a new line battleship, which the Ottomans probably aren't interested in.

Torpedo defense of some sort is a must, as is sufficient armament to deal with TBs. It should also be noted that short length is in and of itself a torpedo defense as well.

Nobody: I like your design. What's the intention of the main battery layout though?

EDIT: oh, and Ottoman FC is licensed Dutch tech anyway....