Some Orange Never-wheres

[P3D]

Some ship design I was considering when I played Orange.

A fast battleship with either 12x13.5" or 8x15" guns, in AB(sup.)XY arrangement, inclined belt. 5400t heavier than the 9x13.5" ships that actually got laid down, I thought it was too expensive - given some designs I could lay down 1-2 years later.

Cape 2, Orange Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   35,008 t light; 36,923 t standard; 39,263 t normal; 41,135 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.71 ft / 718.00 ft x 102.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   219.67 m / 218.85 m x 31.09 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      12 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,230.00lbs / 557.92kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      16 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 16,604 lbs / 7,532 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.2" / 335 mm   480.00 ft / 146.30 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     38.00 ft / 11.58 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   480.00 ft / 146.30 m   41.00 ft / 12.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 132,268 shp / 98,672 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,213 tons

Complement:
   1,394 - 1,813

Cost:
   £5.987 million / $23.949 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,076 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 13,101 tons, 33.4 %
      - Belts: 4,528 tons, 11.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,456 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 3,401 tons, 8.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,368 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 348 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,928 tons, 12.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,903 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,255 tons, 10.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,356 lbs / 21,027 Kg = 37.7 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.569
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31.00 ft / 9.45 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (63 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.60 ft / 6.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,011 Square feet or 4,832 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 988 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[P3D]

A battleship concept. The concept is to aim for deck hits, which is achieved by 75* main gun elevation and reduced charges for shorter ranges. No BB could be designed to withstand 16" deck hits, which would need like 9" deck armor. To compensate for the 2-3x reduction in hit chance one need a lot of guns and a lot of ammunition. Improved KC armor at close to insane levels - inclined belt, splinter bulkhead behind.
I decided not to build such ships as they were pretty dependent on moderator approval of the 'special feature' (and the rules in place at the time they are laid down, e.g. max SHP), but they were seriously considered.

Concept ship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   53,163 t light; 57,373 t standard; 61,159 t normal; 64,188 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   878.84 ft / 870.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   267.87 m / 265.18 m x 36.58 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      12 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (3x4 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 26,520 lbs / 12,029 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.6" / 371 mm   530.00 ft / 161.54 m   15.50 ft / 4.72 m
   Ends:   4.50" / 114 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Upper:   4.50" / 114 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   530.00 ft / 161.54 m   41.00 ft / 12.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.2" / 411 mm   12.0" / 305 mm      14.4" / 366 mm
   2nd:   1.80" / 46 mm   0.90" / 23 mm      0.90" / 23 mm
   3rd:   4.50" / 114 mm   1.80" / 46 mm      1.80" / 46 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.95" / 126 mm, Conning tower: 16.20" / 411 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 166,498 shp / 124,208 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,815 tons

Complement:
   1,943 - 2,527

Cost:
   £9.023 million / $36.090 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,315 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 19,829 tons, 32.4 %
      - Belts: 6,738 tons, 11.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,608 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 3,809 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 7,133 tons, 11.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 542 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 6,203 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 23,315 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,996 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73,642 lbs / 33,403 Kg = 36.0 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 11.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 9.5 ft / 2.9 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.621
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.50 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      33.00 ft / 10.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m
      - Mid (40 %):      24.50 ft / 7.47 m (16.50 ft / 5.03 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Stern:      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.38 ft / 6.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 77,888 Square feet or 7,236 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 230 lbs/sq ft or 1,123 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.08
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[P3D]

8-gun version of the above concept. Needless to say, this and the previous ship would have required faster builds to be finished in any reasonable time.

laid down 1916

Displacement:
   40,167 t light; 43,290 t standard; 46,422 t normal; 48,927 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   810.64 ft / 805.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   247.08 m / 245.36 m x 32.31 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,300.00lbs / 1,043.26kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 0.37" / 9.4 mm guns in one mount, 0.03lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on side, 12 raised guns
   Weight of broadside 19,512 lbs / 8,851 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.2" / 361 mm   492.00 ft / 149.96 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   313.00 ft / 95.40 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   492.00 ft / 149.96 m   43.00 ft / 13.11 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      15.0" / 381 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 140,132 shp / 104,538 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,637 tons

Complement:
   1,580 - 2,055

Cost:
   £6.503 million / $26.011 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,187 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 14,955 tons, 32.2 %
      - Belts: 5,549 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,566 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 2,310 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,085 tons, 11.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 445 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 5,221 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,404 tons, 37.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,255 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     59,498 lbs / 26,988 Kg = 29.1 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 8.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (60 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.36 ft / 6.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 61,079 Square feet or 5,674 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 204 lbs/sq ft or 994 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[P3D]

The ultimate version to increase hit chances with 4 quad 13.5"s optimized for deck hits. Still good for 6" deck penetration over 10,000 yards thanks to the 'mortar' concept.

Ship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   50,905 t light; 54,552 t standard; 58,204 t normal; 61,126 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   884.23 ft / 876.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 34.00 ft (normal load)
   269.51 m / 267.00 m x 36.58 m  x 10.36 m

Armament:
      16 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,230.19lbs / 558.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 21,951 lbs / 9,957 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.6" / 371 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   15.50 ft / 4.72 m
   Ends:   4.50" / 114 mm   376.00 ft / 114.60 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.50" / 114 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   41.00 ft / 12.50 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.2" / 411 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      14.4" / 366 mm
   2nd:   1.80" / 46 mm   0.90" / 23 mm      0.90" / 23 mm
   3rd:   4.50" / 114 mm   1.80" / 46 mm      1.80" / 46 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.95" / 126 mm, Conning tower: 16.20" / 411 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 157,495 shp / 117,491 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,574 tons

Complement:
   1,873 - 2,435

Cost:
   £8.031 million / $32.126 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,744 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 19,549 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 6,504 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,517 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 4,158 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 6,845 tons, 11.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 524 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5,868 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 22,344 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,299 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     73,332 lbs / 33,263 Kg = 59.6 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 11.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 8.3 ft / 2.5 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      33.00 ft / 10.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m
      - Mid (40 %):      24.50 ft / 7.47 m (16.50 ft / 5.03 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Stern:      16.50 ft / 5.03 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.38 ft / 6.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 74,750 Square feet or 6,945 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 226 lbs/sq ft or 1,106 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.08
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Carthaginian]

A battleship concept. The concept is to aim for deck hits, which is achieved by 75* main gun elevation and reduced charges for shorter ranges. No BB could be designed to withstand 16" deck hits, which would need like 9" deck armor. To compensate for the 2-3x reduction in hit chance one need a lot of guns and a lot of ammunition. Improved KC armor at close to insane levels - inclined belt, splinter bulkhead behind.

The hindsight in that post is scary, P3D.
Honestly.

Considering that NO large bore US naval cannon EVER exceeded 45 degrees, I think this concept is so far out in left field that the coach needs to check and see if its even in the stadium's ZIP Code.

[P3D]

A battleship concept. The concept is to aim for deck hits, which is achieved by 75* main gun elevation and reduced charges for shorter ranges. No BB could be designed to withstand 16" deck hits, which would need like 9" deck armor. To compensate for the 2-3x reduction in hit chance one need a lot of guns and a lot of ammunition. Improved KC armor at close to insane levels - inclined belt, splinter bulkhead behind.

The hindsight in that post is scary, P3D.
Honestly.

Considering that NO US naval cannon EVER exceeded 45 degrees, I think this concept is so far out in left field that the coach needs to check and see if its even in the stadium's ZIP Code.

That's exactly why I did not press the issue - just mentioned in one PM to Rocky. Then decided to go conservative for a time (to preclude any debates) then quit for a while.

The idea actually was an extension of the traditional coastal defense mortar concept with deck penetration emphasis. I just added fire control, large number of full caliber naval guns, reduced charges (1/4, 2/4 and 3/4) depending on firing distance. The biggest leap of faith is IMHO the navy accepting the drastic drop in hit chance (and increase in shell time-of-flight), and significantly increased secrecy requirements. Actually, due to NaAB limitations, i made the calculations with 45* max gun elevation.

[P3D]

I had some 'conventional' fast BB concepts, the following design is simmed with 1920 engines and tailored to fit the treaty limitations. A lengthened fast version of the latest quad battleships. 1916 engines would require either additional 2-3000t or reduced armor. The fractional armor thicknesses are from the inclined belt and improved KC armor.

Cape 3, laid down 1920

Displacement:
   34,997 t light; 36,967 t standard; 39,400 t normal; 41,346 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 721.00 ft x 103.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 219.76 m x 31.39 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      16 - 0.36" / 9.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17,496 lbs / 7,936 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.7" / 348 mm   476.00 ft / 145.08 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.50" / 114 mm   130.00 ft / 39.62 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     115.00 ft / 35.05 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   476.00 ft / 145.08 m   42.00 ft / 12.80 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.3" / 389 mm   9.10" / 231 mm      14.4" / 366 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 132,165 shp / 98,595 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,379 tons

Complement:
   1,397 - 1,817

Cost:
   £6.744 million / $26.974 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,187 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 13,009 tons, 33.0 %
      - Belts: 4,755 tons, 12.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,479 tons, 3.8 %
      - Armament: 2,308 tons, 5.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,366 tons, 11.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 100 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 4,621 tons, 11.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,749 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,403 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 430 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     45,385 lbs / 20,586 Kg = 22.2 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31.00 ft / 9.45 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (45 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.08 ft / 6.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,449 Square feet or 4,873 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 977 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Marek Gutkowski]

the 127mm secondariness are kind of light.
8 on each side will not give a good protection from DD torpedo attacks and a cruiser on a torpedo attack will not worry much.

Other than that I don't see a problem with this design, the seakeeping and steadiness is lower that my what I prefer, but people tend to remind me that taking a 10 scale waves on the side is not a everyday assurance. 

[Carthaginian]

When a ship reaches the 750' range, 'seakeeping' becomes a relative term.
I'm pretty sure that this ship could steam into the teeth of a hurricane and come out- though it'd take a righteous beating in spite of it's size. Sheer size does have it's advantages.

[P3D]

the 127mm secondariness are kind of light.
8 on each side will not give a good protection from DD torpedo attacks and a cruiser on a torpedo attack will not worry much.

Not enough? Exactly which historical ship had more shells in a secondary broadside?
Also, nothing stops the main guns firing on those cruisers and destroyers - and they will hit.
BTW two of the mounts are superfiring over the main guns.

Keep in mind, SS punishes speed with roughly 0.10 seakeeping/1knot.

[Marek Gutkowski]

Not enough? Exactly which historical ship had more shells in a secondary broadside?
Also, nothing stops the main guns firing on those cruisers and destroyers - and they will hit.
BTW two of the mounts are superfiring over the main guns.

Queen Elizabeth Class, most of German made ship, IJN Kongo class

16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts

Well the report says they are on the side, You have to put them on the centerline for that.

[Sachmle]

Not enough? Exactly which historical ship had more shells in a secondary broadside?
Also, nothing stops the main guns firing on those cruisers and destroyers - and they will hit.
BTW two of the mounts are superfiring over the main guns.

Queen Elizabeth Class, most of German made ship, IJN Kongo class

Actually they all had 8 or less secondary to a side. Many had a lot of tertiary (4" or smaller on avg) guns.
QE: 16x6"
Kongo: 16x6", 8x3.2"
Nassau: 12x15cm, 16x8.8cm
Helgoland: 14x15cm, 6x8.8cm
Kaiser: 14x15cm, 6-8x8.8cm
Konig: 14x15cm, 6x8.8cm
Bayern: 16x15cm, 8-10x8.8cm
Sachen: 16x15cm, 8-10x8.8cm
Bismark: 12x15cm, 16x10.5cm(semi DP)

16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts

Well the report says they are on the side, You have to put them on the centerline for that.

SS Only gives you 5 gun slots. He has 5 different calibers, therefore no open slot to put the 2 centerline raised 5" mounts, so he lumped them in with the other 6 twin mounts in one slot. This is OK here, as long as you explain it. Even if he dropped the light caliber MGs and put those 2 mounts in a separate slot the SS wouldn't change as far as weight, steadiness, stability, broadside, survivability, etc..

[Marek Gutkowski]

8x127mm way lower that 6x150mm.
Its like 12x.303MG on a Hurricane and 6 .50 MG on a Mustang.
You have 10x127mm for a broadside that is the same as on standard type, So ok that maybe enough. 


I'm am not saying that secondary's are that important.
If You got enough screening cruisers and destroyers then that's ok. 

I did a quick SS sim and You are right SS shows the broadside as same no matter were the guns are located. ??? what gives?   

[Sachmle]

8x127mm way lower that 6x150mm.

Lower thrown weight perhaps, but using the US 6/47 and 5/38 as examples you find that with the 6" fires a 105lbs shell at 8-10 rounds per minute (per NavWeaps) with your avg 7 per side you get 5,880-7,350lbs of metal in the air per minute. The 5" fires a 54lbs shell at 15-22 (per NavWeaps) rounds per minute with your avg 8 per side you get 6,480-9,504lbs of metal in the air per minute. Therefore, in theory, based upon the superior RoF of the 5" vs the 6" and the 1 extra gun per side, I'd take the 8x2x5" over the 14x1x6" any day.

[Marek Gutkowski]

Well it eternal throw weight versus the Individual punch of the weapon...

Lets agree to disagree?