New New Swiss Super Torpedo Boat

[Desertfox]

Updated design, even included some protection for the torpedoes.


Ivan class, New Switzerland Super Torpedo Boat laid down 1922

Displacement:
   1,500 t light; 1,555 t standard; 1,705 t normal; 1,825 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   410.00 ft / 410.00 ft x 34.20 ft x 11.20 ft (normal load)
   124.97 m / 124.97 m x 10.42 m  x 3.41 m

Armament:
     6 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (3x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1922 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline, all amidships
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 252 lbs / 114 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   16 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   0.50" / 13 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   2.00 ft / 0.61 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:         -            -         0.10" / 3 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 43,660 shp / 32,570 Kw = 35.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 269 tons

Complement:
   132 - 172

Cost:
   £0.584 million / $2.338 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 32 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 12 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 6 tons, 0.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 966 tons, 56.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 457 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 205 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 33 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     305 lbs / 138 Kg = 9.5 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.380
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.99 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.60 ft / 3.54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 199.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 28.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,550 Square feet or 794 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 52 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 159 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.67
      - Overall: 0.51
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Tanthalas]

So it actualy has 12 torps still judging by the picture (as curently noone has the 2K ton DD tech which includes quad launchers) and since you brought up the US 4 pipers, im going to have to point out that they could only fire 6 per side as the mounts were 2 tripple mounts on each beam (and yes it took me a long time to figure that out).  If you want to build this Can I would recomend the same arangement of 2 launchers per beam for it.

[Sachmle]

Could have 4 twin launchers with 1 reload per tube. That would be 16.

[Tanthalas]

Could have 4 twin launchers with 1 reload per tube. That would be 16.

Your absolutly correct, but he lists 16 above watter tubes, perhaps 4 of them are Bow tubes that would explain it I supose.

[Sachmle]

Could have 4 twin launchers with 1 reload per tube. That would be 16.

Your absolutly correct, but he lists 16 above watter tubes, perhaps 4 of them are Bow tubes that would explain it I supose.

Some have started listing Torpedoes instead of tubes in the SS. I'm never sure which is the 'approved' way anymore. I list tubes and then list total torps in the misc weight. However I also breakdown my misc weight unlike some.

[The Rock Doctor]

Maybe he's anticipating having quad carriages by the time he gets around to building it.

[Tanthalas]

Maybe he's anticipating having quad carriages by the time he gets around to building it.

and 1920 engines (neither of which the NS have started researchingas of their last HY report)

[Logi]

I repeat Guinness' comment, the BC is too low. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. For me, I had to force dropping stuff and compromising on my DD just to get BC above 0.4. Have you drawn a top view of the ship, I'm not quite sure everything will fit.

[TexanCowboy]

No FC....never a good idea on a ship of this size.

[Ithekro]

Unless one plans to always be very close to the enemy in combat....which is generally considered to be too close.

[Desertfox]

It's four quads, and its a future design.

I repeat Guinness' comment, the BC is too low. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. For me, I had to force dropping stuff and compromising on my DD just to get BC above 0.4. Have you drawn a top view of the ship, I'm not quite sure everything will fit.

Unless all previous DDs are resimmed (which won't happen) I'll keep the current BC. I need every ounce of fighting power I can get from my ships, I've been screwed enough already by the rules, and my entire DD fleet is borderline obsolescent.

No FC....never a good idea on a ship of this size.

FC for 4" guns is a waste of weight and space. Besides this ship will either be shooting at: a) big, slow, unmaneuvering battleships or b) screening DDs at pointblank range.

[Ithekro]

Fighting against screening destroyers that can hit you with their Fire Control...or slow Battleships that can hit you from far outside your guns range....okay.

I think their point of the BC being low was because it is dangerous...it makes the ship weak if I recall correctly.  Something about trouble in high speed/rough water conditons or tight turns...if I'm remembering things correctly.  It wasn't as bad on the really tiny ships because there honestly isn't a way to sim really tiny ships in SS2 without that...it gets more noted the larger one gets...though these are still relatively light enough I suppose.

[Valles]

Amusingly, when I was putting together my very first destroyer designs, I recall being told that such craft were too small and unstable to serve as effective medium or long range gunnery platforms no matter what kind of fire control they mounted.

[Guinness]

I'm not sure that even a 1500 ton boat really *needs* fc. And this coming from someone who has built FC into every boat over 500t he's designed.

I seem to recall that Friedman spoke to this point in his RN DD books. Something about FC being included for torpedoes, not guns. The Brits at the time were operating on the priniciple that mass long-range torpedo shots would be used as "browning shots" to break up enemy capital ship formations before the RN's own capital ships moved in.

Gunnery, especially around 1920 is another question. If I have time tonight, I'll go looking in Friedman's books to see what he says on that subject. My guess is "FC" was likely nothing more than a central post rangefinder and follow the pointer with no rangetable or "computer" in use.

[maddox]

The mechanical calculators associated with FC are perfectly capable to give a usable resolution to aim torpedo's in a leading angle.

So a simple rangefinder, some estimate of speed, and a run trough the room sized mechanical abbacus can yield some fun things.