New New Swiss Super Torpedo Boat

[Desertfox]

Something truly Swiss. A super torpedo boat, a squadron of these is capable of unleashing 160 Long Lances at any enemy fleet. The armament is concentrated in the front to cover their charge. The 90mm guns are actually mortars that would launch phosphorous shells to provide some cover during their approach.



New Switzerland Super Destroyer laid down 1922

Displacement:
   1,418 t light; 1,479 t standard; 1,624 t normal; 1,740 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   121.92 m / 121.92 m x 10.36 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1922 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 492 lbs / 223 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   16 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:         -            -         0.10" / 3 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 43,003 shp / 32,080 Kw = 35.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 261 tons

Complement:
   127 - 166

Cost:
   £0.611 million / $2.445 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 62 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 877 tons, 54.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 440 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 206 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 32 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     280 lbs / 127 Kg = 2.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.380
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.60 ft / 3.54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 204.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 25.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,292 Square feet or 770 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 47 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 0.70
      - Overall: 0.51
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Sachmle]

- Cross-sectional: 0.49

Other than that, very Swiss.

[Desertfox]

It works if the 90mm guns are removed, which shouldn't weight that much anyway because they are mortars instead of true guns.

[Sachmle]

It works if the 90mm guns are removed, which shouldn't weight that much anyway because they are mortars instead of true guns.

So sim them with guns that weigh what a historical 90mm mortar would weigh.

[Guinness]

Twin mounts need mount and hoist. 6" guns on DDs probably do too, but that's not in the rules...

Obligatory Guinness DD harping: BC is too low.

[Sachmle]

Can she keep her speed if you bump her to 1,500t light (which would up the BC) and swap the 2x2x6 for 2x2x5 and sim the 90s as whatever weights the same as a 90mm mortar?

[Ithekro]

If she wasn't purposed for torpedo duty she'd be a destroyer leader and thus have one with several lesser destroyers.

In context she's like a Mini-Kitakami (very mini).

[Jefgte]

You could probably reduce the lenght by 1.92m.


Jef

[Desertfox]

Twin mounts need mount and hoist. 6" guns on DDs probably do too, but that's not in the rules...

For some reason SS2 absolutely hates mount and hoist twin 6" mounts on DDs. And it has nothing to do with weight. Seakeeping goes to hell, as does recoil and other stuff, that shouldn't be affected by that. Besides, mount and hoist is not required for these ships, they would have just enough shells on lockers for their charge. After which they can reload while fleeing at very high speeds.

Can she keep her speed if you bump her to 1,500t light (which would up the BC) and swap the 2x2x6 for 2x2x5 and sim the 90s as whatever weights the same as a 90mm mortar?

I don't have 5" guns nor twin mounts for them. I could go with 3 4" mounts stacked forward, but the 6" guns make them more unique. 

The only question I have is, should I stuff even more torps on her? I can probably stuff in another mount or even use quintuples... Twenty-five torpedo broadsides... Mwuahahahaha!!!

[Tanthalas]

hmmm course since you dont have/arnt developing the tech to even put 16 torps on them, I have to assume its a white elephant as tripple mounts are the best the NS curently have. the drawing actualy only shows 12 mounts.  I supose you could start researching the 2K ton DD tech in H219 but you cant even think about quintuple mounts till 1924, and that dosnt even get into the problems of luging around 108 pound shells on a DD.  Twin Mounts require Hoists, its in the rules and they apply to all of us evenly, and that dosnt even get into how fun it would be to lug around 100 pound shells on a DD (FYI that 100 pounds is just for the shell not the powder and Case, your looking at like another 30 pounds for the Propelant).

[The Rock Doctor]

Korpen would be proud of you.

I have difficulty accepting that a hull of this size can handle what you have on it here - let alone more torpedoes.

Yes, you need hoists for the guns.  No, one hundred shells doesn't change that - if you want to get by with storage rings on deck, you'll be lucky to have room for ten shells per barrel.

Note your cross-sectional hull strength is a little low.

[TexanCowboy]

I really don't think that would be a good idea. Imagine the fireball when just one 5.5'' shell hit it.

Also, just think about how unrealistic this is. The low BC is something that shouldn't be found on a ship this size, just ships under 1,000 tons. Not to mention that this ship has no misc. weight for anything besides torpedoes. That means no FC, no weight reserve, and no specizalized shells for the 3.5'' mortars. That also means that there will be no steel protection at all for the torpedo tubes to prevent just a 40 mm pom-pom from setting off the ship. This ship is bait to fast, machine gun heavy ships.

[maddox]

A perfect dance partner for Demarce IIIb Volcano.

[Desertfox]

I think, I'll go with the 6x4" version with the third mount between the superstructure and funnel.

Korpen would be proud of you.

*grumbling...* Hey he's the one that stole my idea. *goes back to planning war of revenge...*

I have difficulty accepting that a hull of this size can handle what you have on it here - let alone more torpedoes.

The US four-stackers stuffed 12x21" torpedoes on a far smaller ship.

I really don't think that would be a good idea. Imagine the fireball when just one 5.5'' shell hit it.

Only oxygen-fuel torpedoes tend to go BOOM. And well, that is a risk worth taking. Torpedoes going of where they are are a lot less damaging than a magazine explosion.

Also, just think about how unrealistic this is. The low BC is something that shouldn't be found on a ship this size, just ships under 1,000 tons.

A lot of ships have such a BC, here and in WW. Something we live with.

Not to mention that this ship has no misc. weight for anything besides torpedoes. That means no FC, no weight reserve, and no specizalized shells for the 3.5'' mortars.

Anything that does not serve the role of launching lots of torpedoes at high speeds is nothing more than dead weight. Mortar shells shouldnt be more than a couple hundred pounds.

That also means that there will be no steel protection at all for the torpedo tubes to prevent just a 40 mm pom-pom from setting off the ship. This ship is bait to fast, machine gun heavy ships.

A perfect dance partner for Demarce IIIb Volcano.

Why I have the rest of my fleet (and a gazillion destroyers). They take care of the escorts, these take care of the heavy ships.

[Ithekro]

He is not talking about the torpedoes when he says Fireball....all that powder on the deck and in the magazine...and in the torpedoes....not a friendly mix.