Next Maori Cruiser

[Valles]

...won't be showing up any time soon. 1920 at the earliest.

But when it does, I expect it to look something like this...

CE-1920, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   6,645 t light; 6,981 t standard; 8,218 t normal; 9,207 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   467.60 ft / 459.32 ft x 52.49 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   142.52 m / 140.00 m x 16.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (7x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,543 lbs / 700 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   321.52 ft / 98.00 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 38,225 shp / 28,516 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,226 tons

Complement:
   431 - 561

Cost:
   £0.955 million / $3.818 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 180 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 2,295 tons, 27.9 %
      - Belts: 1,302 tons, 15.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 278 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 646 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,424 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,546 tons, 31.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,572 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,999 lbs / 4,989 Kg = 106.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.606
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.60 ft / 5.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,734 Square feet or 1,648 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 442 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



Yes, there is room for seven centerline turrets on the CE-1916 hull; the possibility informed several parts of my artwork for same. A(B)-(Q)R(S)-(X)Y; also, the boats would be moved into under-deck roller-door bays a la Cross Mirage.

[Sachmle]

I'd ditch 2 twins and try to get speed up to ~30kts. If not any modern BC/CA can catch her.

[TexanCowboy]

But remember the Maori view on cruisers. They aren't to act independently, but to screen the battleline

What scares me is the armour. Nothing short of a 9.2'' shell is getting through that.

[miketr]

Waaaay too slow need at least 28 knots and even then its kinda slow for new builds.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd like to see that picture.

[Tanthalas]

I'd like to see that picture.

LOTS of guns, realy short hull

[Valles]

Any speed increase would be in four-knot blocks, hence, 30 knots. That would look about like this...

CE-1920, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   9,247 t light; 9,642 t standard; 11,141 t normal; 12,341 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.22 ft / 524.93 ft x 59.06 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   162.52 m / 160.00 m x 18.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
     14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (7x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,543 lbs / 700 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   321.52 ft / 98.00 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 79,505 shp / 59,311 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,699 tons

Complement:
   541 - 704

Cost:
   £1.456 million / $5.824 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 180 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 2,550 tons, 22.9 %
      - Belts: 1,332 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 278 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 856 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 85 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,962 tons, 26.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,355 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,894 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,251 lbs / 5,104 Kg = 109.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.80

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.639
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.60 ft / 5.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,509 Square feet or 2,184 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 468 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather




Or, staying with five twins as in the preceding class, this.


CE-1920, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   8,740 t light; 9,072 t standard; 10,514 t normal; 11,667 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.22 ft / 524.93 ft x 59.06 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   162.52 m / 160.00 m x 18.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
     10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,102 lbs / 500 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   321.52 ft / 98.00 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 75,397 shp / 56,246 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,594 tons

Complement:
   518 - 674

Cost:
   £1.321 million / $5.284 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 1.2 %
   Armour: 2,438 tons, 23.2 %
      - Belts: 1,330 tons, 12.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 198 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 828 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 81 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,809 tons, 26.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,164 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,774 tons, 16.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,374 lbs / 5,159 Kg = 110.4 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.60 ft / 5.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,737 Square feet or 2,112 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 453 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather



Neither is, IMHO, worth the cost in tonnage. 26 knots is plenty to maneuver around the core of the fleet and interpose with incoming torpedo squadrons, and even 6 ktons is too big to be wasted on scouting when a destroyer can already carry lookouts and a radio.

Put another way, anything that would want to catch her is going to be big enough to lock in with BB guns, and will have much bigger fish to fry once the shells start flying.

...Hmm. How consistently will 150mm plate stop 8" guns, and at what ranges?

[Valles]

Brutalized from the corpse of the previous class's portrait, and probably not the final look, but overall...

[Ithekro]

Agincourt - the cruiser years.

No secondaries of any kind?  Not even AA guns?  While the 150mm gun might be useful against some cruisers and destroyers, it would be all the effective against larger cruisers (the hold overs from the armored cruiser age).  Remember who your prime rival is in the Pacific.

She's also very much a floating magazine.

[miketr]

I have strong doubts on there being enough space for engines and mags.  What about going for triples?

[TexanCowboy]

8'' of armour is a floating magazine? Since when?

[Valles]

AA probably needs to be on my list for the final draft, yes - something like 4x1x35mm.

I have, right now, a topheavy fleet - one front-line battleship and five second-line ones, plus four second-line ACs. These ships would, by their nature and by the doctrine of their builders, be inevitably in the company of at least several of the above, who would quite sensibly regard larger cruisers stupid enough to try engaging them or their escorts as their own rightful prey.

With every turret having its own dedicated hoist, all that admittedly-explosive potential trouble is safely behind the 20cm belt.

15cm isn't enough to really, conclusively deal with even a Swiss-style foil-clad, but it can make a very good try at it, and by picking it as the sole battery of a single cruiser type aimed at both other CLs and at DDs, I'm hoping to make my limited supply of cash and BP stretch as far as they can.

In the absence of technical expertise of my own regarding the volumetric needs of turbo-electric installations, I take SS's word for it, and that claims that she's anywhere between 'doable' and positively roomy.

[The Rock Doctor]

The pic - while not exact - suggests the midships guns will have poor firing arcs.   A longer hull than the original design, with reduced BC to keep the over tonnage around even, might be better.

Alternately, consider six mounts and increase the height of the armor belt.

For the mission in question - couple AA guns might be useful, but I'd agree that secondaries or torpedoes are probably not going to be helpful.

[Valles]

The difficulty with lengthening the hull is that just extending the bow and stern doesn't do anything; the problem is the room available for the midships' turrets, and fixing that requires a longer belt and commensurate increase in weight.

CE-1920, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   7,124 t light; 7,472 t standard; 8,756 t normal; 9,784 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   533.22 ft / 524.93 ft x 52.49 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   162.52 m / 160.00 m x 16.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (7x2 guns), 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      4 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,548 lbs / 702 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 36,536 shp / 27,256 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,312 tons

Complement:
   452 - 588

Cost:
   £0.968 million / $3.874 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 181 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 2,531 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 1,469 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 280 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 710 tons, 8.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 72 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,361 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,851 tons, 32.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,632 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,304 lbs / 6,035 Kg = 129.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.60 ft / 5.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,503 Square feet or 1,812 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Sure, but you could probably trim your belt down to 18 or 15 cm and still be essentially immune to 8" fire at most likely ranges.