Romanian Plans 1919

[TexanCowboy]

I'm internally debating whether to go with two 1,500 ton destroyers, three 1,000 ton destroyers, or a very light cruiser for H1/1919, folks. Private communication with several people has gotten divergent results, and...well, I'd like to seek ya'll's opinion on it.

[Sachmle]

I'd go with the 3 1k DDs. You need numbers. I'd even consider building 4 750t DDs instead.

[miketr]

Coast line is very short so numbers isn't really critical.  I can see arguments many different ways.  It depends on what you want out of them / expect them to do?

[TexanCowboy]

I want some heavy gun armerment, but the main purpose is to act as a leader to other destroyers...I would actually build the G-class of the Confederates if I had the engine tech...

[TexanCowboy]

To be clear, the 1,500 ton destroyer would probebly look something like this, with 3-4 5'' instead of 2 5.5'' guns. I would probebly use the extra X-sectional to add FC.

Working on the aquisition of 1.5Ktons DD tech

Lion, French Heavy TB laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1.497 t light; 1.552 t standard; 1.730 t normal; 1.872 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   388,45 ft / 387,14 ft x 34,12 ft x 11,81 ft (normal load)
   118,40 m / 118,00 m x 10,40 m  x 3,60 m

Armament:
      2 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount
      4 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 11,02lbs / 5,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 229 lbs / 104 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   9 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 35.989 shp / 26.848 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 3.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 320 tons

Complement:
   133 - 174

Cost:
   £0,345 million / $1,381 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 26 tons, 1,5%
   Machinery: 976 tons, 56,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 455 tons, 26,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 233 tons, 13,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     403 lbs / 183 Kg = 4,8 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,46
   Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 10,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,388
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,31 ft / 0,40 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Mid (27%):      15,09 ft / 4,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,90 ft / 3,93 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86,7%
   Waterplane Area: 8.081 Square feet or 751 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 154 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,51
      - Longitudinal: 1,01
      - Overall: 0,54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

the misc weight is divided:
-crew comfort messures
-marconi instalation
-18 tons of torpedo's in the tubes

2 depth charge racks with 10  charges each 

[Tanthalas]

I would go with the 1K ton job man, not like you need fleet destroyers.

[TexanCowboy]

Yes, but with destroyers this large, I can outrun or smash anything within the Ukranian fleet....

[Ithekro]

Or make smaller ships mounting only one or two heavier guns and then two smaller destroyer like guns.  Say a single 150mm cannon on a 750 ton ship.

[Guinness]

Romanians don't need a ton of endurance. If I were you, I'd be building something more like 500t in numbers. Or something that can lay lots of mines.

[TexanCowboy]

Or one could get....creative.

Lacking oilers that can transfer the dangerous African coast and other pirate-infested regions of the world, the Romanian goverment decided to lay down an armed oiler, that had speed enough to escape from potential foes, and armerment enough to destroy anything that got close to it. The result is...the Revange.

Revange, Romania Oiler laid down 1919 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   2,998 t light; 3,179 t standard; 4,396 t normal; 5,369 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   450.00 ft / 450.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
   137.16 m / 137.16 m x 15.24 m  x 3.81 m

Armament:
     8 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.19lbs / 37.73kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 666 lbs / 302 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.50" / 64 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 68 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 15,947 shp / 11,897 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,190 tons

Complement:
   269 - 350

Cost:
   £0.576 million / $2.303 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 83 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 556 tons, 12.6 %
      - Belts: 226 tons, 5.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 290 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 636 tons, 14.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,636 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,397 tons, 31.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 87 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,377 lbs / 4,254 Kg = 112.7 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.80 ft / 4.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,658 Square feet or 1,455 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 170 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 358 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[ctwaterman]

But Romania is a major Oil Exporter you have the Polesti Oil Fields.

As a point Italian tanker routinely visit Constanta to load Oil, of course they also visit Russian ports to load the same and Coal.

You really dont need an armed Oiler at all simply dock and tank up.  Unless you intend to be launching agressive moves outside the Black and Mediteranian Sea's.

Charles

[Guinness]

Was Ploesti exploitable c. 1920?

[Carthaginian]

The Confederacy would be interested in offering the Romanian Navy the following options:
1.) purchase of any Confederate Navy destroyers which become surplus to requirements.
2.) production of new-build G-class torpedo rams or TB-01 class torpedo boats.
3.) drafting of a new design to Romanian specifications, to be built cooperatively.

[TexanCowboy]

I would go ahead with that, but at this point, the only thing that's going to be being laid down is a few hosipital type ships.

[maddox]

Yes Guinnes , the Ploesti oil fields were expoitable in 1900 and earlier.