UNK Designs

[mentat]

Never mind - and well done for trying :) - SS really penalises on Speed, 29.5 knots was Hood's final speed as an Old Lady - and I think the protection is more important anyway

Nice Destroyer btw - very handy - my only query is re Freeboard and Seaboat Qlty - would a bit higher freeboard be useful for North Atlantic - they seem to have the range to be Ocean going

also Q'deck is 3' lower than main deck - mmm  - seems bit odd

[hooper82]

Yeah, think of it as a flushed deck DD with a flared bow to try and deal with that North Atlantic Weather.

[maddox]

3' step on the quarterdeck. I can see reasons for that.  For one, it creates room to work under the barrel of the aft gun.

[mentat]

Getting back to Hood

I have recent design I dug up for 'Fully Armoured BC" (like an Early Vanguard)or perhaps what Hood should have been )  - I guess a Fast BB in reality - 40 k tons 15" Belt but just 28 knots - interesting to compare

And I can't help wondering - with current limit of 140k shp - since 30 knots requires too much compromise on protection - the fully armoured ship is the better buy

   - what does everyone think  ;D

40k t, BAE Large BC laid down 1918

Displacement:
   39,713 t light; 41,709 t standard; 44,028 t normal; 45,884 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   869.99 ft / 856.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 31.75 ft (normal load)
   265.17 m / 260.91 m x 32.92 m  x 9.68 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,950.00lbs / 884.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (10x2 guns), 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      6 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm guns in single mounts, 15.00lbs / 6.80kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      32 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,506 lbs / 7,487 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   433.00 ft / 131.98 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   265.00 ft / 80.77 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     158.00 ft / 48.16 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.80" / 46 mm   491.00 ft / 149.66 m   31.00 ft / 9.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.50" / 38 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 6.00" / 152 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 113,948 shp / 85,006 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,174 tons

Complement:
   1,519 - 1,975

Cost:
   £6.960 million / $27.838 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,803 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 16,151 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 4,525 tons, 10.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,014 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 3,186 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 6,996 tons, 15.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 430 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 4,111 tons, 9.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,299 tons, 39.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,315 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     67,721 lbs / 30,718 Kg = 40.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 10.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.26 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.05 ft / 6.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 63,030 Square feet or 5,856 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 968 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

I really like this one - good competitor to Mondedor ...

Deck armour and Freeboard/Seaboat Qlty are prob. excessive - could trade off for a bit more speed - but I guess 29 knots is still barrier with less than 140k shp

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The 28kn version looks better to me than the faster versions. But the AD seems excessive or too much hindsightful. Also, I consider MB over 14" to be a waste.
I personally have a policy of cutting back "fire platform slightly" down to 70%, with the balance going into "stability".
Borys

[maddox]

She's a good companion to Montmedie and Mont Bruyere.  That half kts top speed won't make a difference.

But, change the belt to something thinner, and use the weight  to increase the hight of the main belt and to make the TB a tad heavier. 2" ain't to little.

The light secundaries could be seen as a flaw in an era of increasing DD size.

On cruise speed and range.  France is building the newer ships to 16 kts cruise speed, and the ranges vary between 6000 and 9000 nm.

[mentat]

Yes - agree with those points

maybe - Belt 15 (Mags) 14 (Mach'y) Deck 5 (Mags) 4 Mach'y

increase TB and Sec's - 20 x 4.7" or 16 x 5.1" - should do it

I'd forgotten I had included Upper and End Belts - so it is very well protected, but maybe otherwise Stab'y would be bit higher

Range - this is general design study - I think is up to Individual needs - just need to tweak other bits if anybody needs more

[hooper82]

Ahoj!
The 28kn version looks better to me than the faster versions. But the AD seems excessive or too much hindsightful. Also, I consider MB over 14" to be a waste.
I personally have a policy of cutting back "fire platform slightly" down to 70%, with the balance going into "stability".
Borys

AD??  Air Defense?  Armored Deck?

[hooper82]

I like your design Mentat, but I'd argue that the Hood isn't meant to make sense.  She's meant to be the pride of the fleet, fast, overpriced...with some glaring flaws.

[mentat]

I think she made sense in real world at the time - as well as being so damned good looking (from most angles - perhaps not side profile)

- question is - what makes sense in nverse right now 1918 - nverse seems to have more armour + less speed - prob. courtesy of SS program

I will try to tweak the design a bit - get bit more speed - I like speed too  ;D

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Sorry Hooper - yes, indeed, AD stands for Armoured Deck. MB = Main Belt, MG - Main Guns ...
Borys

[Tanthalas]

so I was playing aorund with HMS Hood today, and I actualy got her to work mostly.  so I thought this would be the best place to post it, I definetly wouldnt object to opinions (as always) oh and im contemplating a way to trim a little more weight (which would go right into the Misc. weight).  what is everyones opinion of a KGV style lightly armored Super Structure?

HMS Hood, United Norman Kingdom Battle Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   35,200 t light; 36,932 t standard; 40,043 t normal; 42,532 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   860.00 ft / 850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   262.13 m / 259.08 m x 28.96 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
     8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,920.00lbs / 870.90kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (8x2 guns), 57.00lbs / 25.85kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (2x2 guns), 57.00lbs / 25.85kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 16,504 lbs / 7,486 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   546.00 ft / 166.42 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   304.00 ft / 92.66 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   544.00 ft / 165.81 m   29.00 ft / 8.84 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 8,030nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,601 tons

Complement:
   1,414 - 1,839

Cost:
   £6.344 million / $25.376 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,818 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 12,100 tons, 30.2 %
      - Belts: 4,968 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 876 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,797 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,157 tons, 7.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 303 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 13.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,714 tons, 39.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,843 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 352 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,576 lbs / 22,941 Kg = 30.0 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (66 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.92 ft / 6.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,879 Square feet or 5,284 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 933 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.01
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

352 tons misc. weight
250 tons FC
 50 tons Flag Facilities
 25 tons Radar
 27 tons comfort items (still not much but I managed to clear up a little more)

[Sachmle]

Nice, but you forgot the 7" upper belt and I think she was laid down with 5" guns, not 4.7".

[Guinness]

and I think she was laid down with 5" guns, not 4.7".

Actually, her secondary battery was 5.5".

[Tanthalas]

it was more an atempt to make hood work in the nverse, im not the person playing the UNK at this point so its more like Mentats ship than an actual nverse ship.