Treaty BB Killer...

[Desertfox]

I actually like this sucker. ;D BTW the dimensions are either a multiple of 13 or include 13 as part of their number.


NSS Davy Jones, New Switzerland Treaty Killer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   50,247 t light; 53,632 t standard; 58,519 t normal; 62,428 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   845.00 ft / 845.00 ft x 113.00 ft x 39.00 ft (normal load)
   257.56 m / 257.56 m x 34.44 m  x 11.89 m

Armament:
     15 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (5x3 guns), 2,048.00lbs / 928.96kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
     16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
     12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 32,833 lbs / 14,893 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   490.00 ft / 149.35 m   29.00 ft / 8.84 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 157,032 shp / 117,146 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,796 tons

Complement:
   1,880 - 2,445

Cost:
   £15.179 million / $60.715 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,104 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 17,278 tons, 29.5 %
      - Belts: 4,809 tons, 8.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 526 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armament: 5,552 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 6,164 tons, 10.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 227 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 5,407 tons, 9.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 23,458 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,272 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     59,801 lbs / 27,125 Kg = 29.2 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 18.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.07 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.88 ft / 6.67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 66,638 Square feet or 6,191 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 248 lbs/sq ft or 1,209 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Carthaginian]

If NS had the BP to build it and enough ships to escort it... well, it might not be so abstract.

[Desertfox]

Take a look at my fleet, if there is something I have plenty of its destroyers and cruisers, and I do have enough BP to build it, it's only 3 year's worth.

[ctwaterman]

That and it has an extremely short Belt, even shorter if its to be inclined at all.   Its a lovely design but at 50,000 tons it cannot engage 2 of even the Italian 25K Ton Designs and expect to win.  Especially when I start by Using High Explosive to begin with.   This design is less well armored then say the Yamato and has extremely large portions of the ship completely unarmored.  

You sink ships by letting water into them or setting them on fire.....

[Desertfox]

Fifteen 16" shells falling down at long range will shred most any BB currently in service. Your ships would be destroyed before they could even get into decent range.


Now this one is just plain crazy...

NSS 'Thirteen', New Switzerland Superstition Killer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   34,071 t light; 36,101 t standard; 39,169 t normal; 41,624 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   780.00 ft / 780.00 ft x 104.00 ft x 32.50 ft (normal load)
   237.74 m / 237.74 m x 31.70 m  x 9.91 m

Armament:
      13 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (5 mounts), 1,098.50lbs / 498.27kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      26 - 3.90" / 99.1 mm guns (13x2 guns), 29.66lbs / 13.45kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      13 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns (6 mounts), 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 16,781 lbs / 7,612 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   422.50 ft / 128.78 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 83 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.30" / 33 mm   422.50 ft / 128.78 m   32.50 ft / 9.91 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.30" / 109 mm, Conning tower: 6.50" / 165 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 82,196 shp / 61,318 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 13,000nm at 13.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,523 tons

Complement:
   1,391 - 1,809

Cost:
   £8.529 million / $34.116 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,098 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 12,410 tons, 31.7 %
      - Belts: 3,174 tons, 8.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 660 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 4,034 tons, 10.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,379 tons, 11.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 162 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,830 tons, 7.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,343 tons, 41.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,099 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 390 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,670 lbs / 25,251 Kg = 50.7 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.50 ft / 9.91 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Stern:      19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.54 ft / 6.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 55,051 Square feet or 5,114 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1,037 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.04
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.06
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[ctwaterman]

So we are going with the concept of firing at targets beyond 28,000 Yards So you fir off your entire load of 16" shells and get what 1 maybe 2 Hits you better hope its a Golden BB and hits a Magazine.

On the other hand the average depth the harbor at your base at Pearl Harbor and the Channel leading into it are what 40 Feet :)

I think your 39' Draught might cause a few problems.

[Walter]

Why not go for a draught of 32.5 feet (= 13*2.5) on the big one like you did on the smaller one? Regarding the smaller one, I'm fairly certain that you could mess around a bit with the design so you'd end up with a light displacement that is also divideable by 13, not just the standard and normal displacement. :)

[Sachmle]

Widen 'Thirteen' out so you get enough stability to up the steadiness and up her to 35,000t light. Then use the extra Composite strength to either up speed or increase gun size (15" on the guns, ~28kts on speed) and what you get should be pretty decent actually. Oh, may want to deepen belt a little, 6.5' not that deep at those speeds..think you'll expose under the belt area.

[Desertfox]

'Thirteen' was just an excercise in bad luck. Look closely, just about every single number is some multiple of 13.


Now this one is looking really nice.

NSS New Switzerland, New Switzerland Treaty Killer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   47,017 t light; 49,908 t standard; 53,815 t normal; 56,941 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   820.00 ft / 820.00 ft x 112.00 ft x 37.70 ft (normal load)
   249.94 m / 249.94 m x 34.14 m  x 11.49 m

Armament:
      15 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (5x3 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      10 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6 mounts), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 31,985 lbs / 14,508 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 101

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   530.00 ft / 161.54 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   290.00 ft / 88.39 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   530.00 ft / 161.54 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 114,418 shp / 85,356 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,033 tons

Complement:
   1,766 - 2,296

Cost:
   £14.368 million / $57.472 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,104 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 16,910 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 5,070 tons, 9.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 588 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armament: 5,141 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,895 tons, 11.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 215 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,940 tons, 7.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 21,762 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,798 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57,459 lbs / 26,063 Kg = 28.1 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 7.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      34.00 ft / 10.36 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.25 ft / 6.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 63,735 Square feet or 5,921 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 240 lbs/sq ft or 1,174 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Edit: Fixed the transom stern

[Sachmle]

UB-V class

SMS U-22, laid down in 1918
SMS U-23, laid down in 1918
SMS U-24, laid down in 1919
SMS U-25, laid down in 1919

Model: "Advanced" 1910, 1000 t variety
Displacement: 1000t
Torpedoes: 4 x 500mm TT F with 6 reloads; 2 x 500 mm TT A, with no reloads
Guns: 1x105mm
Surface Performance: 17 knots (8000 nm @ 8 knots)
Submerged Performance: 10 knots (90 nm @ 5 knots)
Max depth: 150
Fuel: Diesel

[ledeper]

 ;D ;D

[Desertfox]

40 built

M-24 class, New Switzerland Multi Purpose laid down 1917
20t Minesweeping Gear/ Mines/ ASW Equipment

[Sachmle]

40 built

M-24 class, New Switzerland Multi Purpose laid down 1917
20t Minesweeping Gear/ Mines/ ASW Equipment

I'd take my chances honestly. Before the invention of ASDIC..and really until the maturation of it into actual working passive SONAR the odds of a 1900-1940 era ASW ship hitting a sub is about as good as landing enough hits at +25,000yds to finish a BB in the same time frame.

[Desertfox]

N-verse says otherwise... but in the same vein, the chances of a WWI submarine getting into position and pulling of a succesful attack on a warship in the high seas are about the same. How many 'fast' warships were sunk by submarines during WWI?

[Sachmle]

Check, counter-check..one of us would get check-mate eventually..and it would be FUN to watch. :D