Design Competition

[TexanCowboy]

Because my creativity appears to be stiffled, I offer a design competition. Please design a ship that can be built with Romania's current tech, and that is 4,000-5,000 tons, for 1918. The winner will have his ship built, and will be payed a design fee of 1/10 of the price of the ship.

[Desertfox]

Interesting... anything specific you want?

[TexanCowboy]

Not really. It has to be able to clear the dock by 6 months, so don't propose a oiler or such. Otherwise, everything doable within my guns and techs is free game.

[Jefgte]

Here is a Study made by NUS Design Bureau for South America patrols with the new quad 9" turret & just 120m lenght.

5900t, NUS ACC laid down 1920 (Engine 1918)

Displacement:
   5 900 t light; 6 265 t standard; 6 774 t normal; 7 181 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 65.62 ft x 20.67 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 20.00 m  x 6.30 m

Armament:
     8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (2x4 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 379 lbs / 1 533 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
     13.12 ft / 4.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 21 000 shp / 15 666 Kw = 22.85 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 916 tons

Complement:
   373 - 485

Cost:
   £1.577 million / $6.309 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 422 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 1 429 tons, 21.1 %
      - Belts: 646 tons, 9.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 329 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 418 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 758 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 990 tons, 44.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 874 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 969 lbs / 3 615 Kg = 20.5 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.444
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Stern:      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.31 ft / 4.67 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 399 Square feet or 1 523 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 608 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Adjustements could be made for Romania specifs.

[Carthaginian]

Nice 2nd class BB, Jef!

[The Rock Doctor]

An all-purpose protected cruiser for screening heavy units, minelaying, or other stuff.  Uses French guns noted to be in the Romanian inventory.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4,874 t light; 5,066 t standard; 5,414 t normal; 5,694 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492.13 ft / 492.13 ft x 49.21 ft x 17.39 ft (normal load)
   150.00 m / 150.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.30 m

Armament:
      3 - 6.50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137.06lbs / 62.17kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 6.50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137.06lbs / 62.17kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 702 lbs / 318 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 42,000 shp / 31,332 Kw = 29.19 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 628 tons)

Complement:
   315 - 410

Cost:
   £1.132 million / $4.526 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 88 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 867 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 537 tons, 9.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 36 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 281 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,675 tons, 30.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,027 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 541 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 217 tons, 4.0 %
-100 t:  FC
-60 t:  Sixty mines
-25 t:  Long-range wireless
-16 t:  Torpedoes
-16 t:  Weight reserve



Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,611 lbs / 2,092 Kg = 33.6 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.29 ft / 4.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,448 Square feet or 1,435 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 396 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.32
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

Anything else?

[Carthaginian]

The CSA is debating a design... but it is incomplete ATM.

And here it is...
The vessel is a coastal cruiser. It uses only preexisting guns that would otherwise be rusting away in a warehouse somewhere, speeding and cheapening construction somewhat. It is small, light and well-protected for its size. Perhaps most importantly for Romania, it boasts a shallow draft and carries a large amount of firepower to support ground troops.

It does lack any anti-aircraft weapons... but Romania could easily alter this design to accommodate any type of AA weapon they desire by trading the extra 25 n. mi. of range to compensate for the weight.

Romanian Coastal Cruiser,   laid down 1919 (Engine 1915)

Displacement:
   3,600 t light; 3,765 t standard; 4,070 t normal; 4,314 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   375.00 ft / 375.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   114.30 m / 114.30 m x 15.24 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      6 - 6.50" / 165 mm guns (3x2 guns), 145.00lbs / 65.77kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 966 lbs / 438 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,000 shp / 11,936 Kw = 23.06 kts
   Range 5,025nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 550 tons

Complement:
   254 - 331

Cost:
   £0.668 million / $2.670 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 113 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 1,089 tons, 26.7 %
      - Belts: 498 tons, 12.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 230 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 339 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 606 tons, 14.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,630 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 470 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 162 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,375 lbs / 2,892 Kg = 46.5 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.475
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.58 ft / 4.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,215 Square feet or 1,135 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 415 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

Tex, you may wish to give us a few days.  I, for one, am rather pre-occupied at the moment.

[TexanCowboy]

Carthaginian, I have 1912 engines. Also, if you increase the weight to 4,500 tons, can you get the speed to 28 knots?

[Carthaginian]

Carthaginian, I have 1912 engines. Also, if you increase the weight to 4,500 tons, can you get the speed to 28 knots?

Lemmie see...

Regretfully, no... not as the hull exists now, and surely not with 1912 engines. I can get the speed up to 25 knots without much in the way of modifications or losses, but this ship is pretty much a low-speed design. Again, it's not built for flying around the open sea- it's made for covering a relatively short coastline effectively and efficiently. Glitz and glamor aren't exactly it's strong points.

Here's the modified version for consideration. Armor drops to 3" all around, with a 1 1/2" deck to protect against any medium caliber shore defenses. Miscellaneous Weight allows for fire control, a long-range wireless, 6x21" torpedoes (2t each, lighter torps can be substituted) and a little weight to spare for sprucing up the commander's cabin. The CSA would construct the 1915 turbines, if necessary, to allow for the increased SHP needed.

Romanian Coastal Cruiser,   laid down 1919 (Engine 1915)

Displacement:
   3,650 t light; 3,816 t standard; 4,124 t normal; 4,370 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   380.00 ft / 380.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   115.82 m / 115.82 m x 15.24 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
     6 - 6.50" / 165 mm guns (3x2 guns), 145.00lbs / 65.77kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
     8 - 2.76" / 70.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 966 lbs / 438 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 81 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22,179 shp / 16,545 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 5,025nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 554 tons

Complement:
   256 - 334

Cost:
   £0.743 million / $2.972 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 113 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 906 tons, 22.0 %
      - Belts: 374 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 172 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 343 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 840 tons, 20.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,645 tons, 39.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 474 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,228 lbs / 2,371 Kg = 38.1 x 6.5 " / 165 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.475
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.58 ft / 4.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,377 Square feet or 1,150 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 413 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

But there are no 1915 turbines...there are 1912, and 1916. But I would not object to 1916! :)

[Carthaginian]

DRAT... my absence is showing... shall return momentarily to fix.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Carthaginian, I have 1912 engines. Also, if you increase the weight to 4,500 tons, can you get the speed to 28 knots?

My [/i]Breslau[/i] class runs 4,999t, 1912 engines and 28kts.  A non-coalfiring & casements, 3x2 ship should be able to hit those above specs. ... note that this is just observation as Bavaria is not going to even consider dealing with Rumania.

[Carthaginian]

Carthaginian, I have 1912 engines. Also, if you increase the weight to 4,500 tons, can you get the speed to 28 knots?

My [/i]Breslau[/i] class runs 4,999t, 1912 engines and 28kts.  A non-coalfiring & casements, 3x2 ship should be able to hit those above specs. ... note that this is just observation as Bavaria is not going to even consider dealing with Rumania.

Oh, no doubt that it COULD be done.
I said it couldn't be done on the hull I had posted.

The CSA is wary of selling Romania 'too much candy for a dime' in this situation.