Confederate Ship Designs: 1919 and Beyond...

[Carthaginian]

The C.S.S. Virginia heralded the advent of the modern battleship in the Confederacy. Though smaller than some of her contemporaries and mounting a numerically smaller main battery, the sheer size of her guns was enough to equalize the issue.

Of late, however, the Virg is beginning to show her age, and some people in the Admiralty are wondering if it might be time to let her slip into retirement... while others wonder if the answer might be something a bit more 'adventurous'- turning the little girl into a woman.

Heavily overbuilt in the minds of her original designers, the Virginia still retains a lot of protection in comparison to other ships her age- and on par with some more modern ships. A major refit would thus be able to leave her armor alone, while concentrating on more 'worthwhile' pursuits... like giving her more modern guns and newer engines.

Virginia, Confederate States of America Battleship laid down 1905 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   18,750 t light; 19,778 t standard; 20,526 t normal; 21,124 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 80.00 ft (Bulges 88.00 ft) x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 24.38 m (Bulges 26.82 m)  x 6.71 m

Armament:
     8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     18 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     18 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     2 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10,910 lbs / 4,949 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.7" / 373 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   5.25" / 133 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.25" / 133 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.7" / 373 mm   3.45" / 88 mm      14.7" / 373 mm
   2nd:   2.10" / 53 mm   3.45" / 88 mm      3.45" / 88 mm
   3rd:   0.53" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.45" / 88 mm, Conning tower: 14.70" / 373 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 25,816 shp / 19,259 Kw = 20.27 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.36 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,346 tons

Complement:
   856 - 1,114

Cost:
   £1.911 million / $7.646 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,334 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 8,456 tons, 41.2 %
      - Belts: 3,884 tons, 18.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,134 tons, 10.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,200 tons, 10.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 237 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 962 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,698 tons, 37.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,776 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,986 lbs / 13,601 Kg = 24.4 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.675
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,473 Square feet or 3,203 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 785 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

4.00 BP total material (1.334 BP for new weapons; .962 for new engines; +10% original disp)
$4.316 cost

[TexanCowboy]

That was rebuilt in 1916. Why redo? Just rebuild the Neoo Leons?

[Guinness]

Indeed. See starting here: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2848.msg40926#msg40926

Reports seem to indicate that the reconstructed Virginia is shaking down in 1918/2.

[Carthaginian]

D'oh.
Oh, well... perhaps I need to look a bit harder- though since I didn't see the rebuild under her encyclopedia entry, I thought she was still 'as is'.

[Guinness]

One of those things that got lost in the transition and my general nverse business surrounding the 4th PacWar.

Feel free to cut and paste image links, etc. from that other thread.

[TexanCowboy]

Neovo Leon? 2 of those, with similar stats...

[Guinness]

At about the same time Virginia's reconstruction begun, preliminary design was also done for the Nuevo Leons: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg39612#msg39612

The plan at the time was to wait and see how Virginia came out before going to work on the newer (and faster) NLs.

[Carthaginian]

Meh, I was just intending to make her a 'flagship' for the NL's.
re-engining them would give me enough new tonnage to add in all the 'goodies' to modernize them like fire control and perhaps even primitive radar. This would turn them into a respectable Pacific 'deterrent' fleet, all told.

[Carthaginian]

The Admiralty long envisioned using older pre-dreadnought battleships (like the Georgia) to support any unlikely amphibious landings made by Confederate troops. As these vessels have been recently disposed of, there are only two real options for fire support: 1.) pull a battleship off the line (unacceptable) or 2.) construct purpose-built fire-support ships (expensive). Unfortunately for the Admiralty, recent changes have created pressure within the military for some kind of amphibious support ship.

Several plans have been forwarded to the Bureau of Ships for consideration- from ships able to be built in Type 0 drydocks and carrying old 100-pounder guns to modern monsters of all-new construction carrying 2000-pounders. One of the more sedate, middle-of-the-road approaches involves the dozen 9.2" turrets under construction at Selma as of late 1918. These ships combine good firepower, moderate protection and small size in a package that any Marine would feel much better if he saw over his shoulder.

Monitor No. 1, Confederate States of America Monitor laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4,400 t light; 4,624 t standard; 4,995 t normal; 5,292 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   320.00 ft / 315.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   97.54 m / 96.01 m x 22.86 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      2 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (1x2 guns), 400.00lbs / 181.44kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns
      4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      1 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing gun in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft
      2 - 1.58" / 40.1 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1919 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,058 lbs / 480 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 4,400 shp / 3,282 Kw = 15.09 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 668 tons

Complement:
   296 - 386

Cost:
   £0.628 million / $2.511 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 132 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 1,546 tons, 31.0 %
      - Belts: 668 tons, 13.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 204 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 649 tons, 13.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 164 tons, 3.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,237 tons, 44.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 595 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 320 tons, 6.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,997 lbs / 9,070 Kg = 51.4 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.94

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.617
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.29 ft / 5.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 40.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 191.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,549 Square feet or 1,630 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 495 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Guinness]

Question: when you use 4.5" guns, do you really mean the 4.75" (50-pounder) of Rohirim origins?

EDIT: to be explicit, I'm referring to this gun, development for which finished in 1910/2:

4.75"/50 caliber 50-pounder $0.25   4rd half (note: identical functionally to RN 4.72")

[Carthaginian]

Question: when you use 4.5" guns, do you really mean the 4.75" (50-pounder) of Rohirim origins?

Yeah... mistake.
Will fix.

[Guinness]

Thanks. Was starting to doubt my own sanity, which is easy when you've been up since 4:50 am.  >:(

[Carthaginian]

Thanks. Was starting to doubt my own sanity, which is easy when you've been up since 4:50 am.  >:(

Days like that suck.
About like 2 weeks or so ago when it snowed so bad and I had to pull a 24 hour shift, then got 12h off and had to come back in for another 8.

What happened was I originally thought about 5.5" guns, but decided to change them to 4.75 and forgot a quarter-inch.

[Guinness]

It's snowed so much here that people are barely even bothering to horde toilet paper anymore, and you probably have gotten twice as much. I'm just ready for spring to start. At least pitchers and catchers have reported...

[Sachmle]

Carth: Wouldn't bother with a turbine on a 15kt monitor. Granted, I know this will screw up the weights, but really a VTE should/would be sufficient.