NUS Atlantic Shipyards

[Sachmle]

If you cut the armor on the 40mm and .50cal's you could get her under the 2% cut off for mercantile standard, then you could use this rule

Small ships

It is possible to build small ships (less than 201 t light displacement) to mercantile  standards without the use of dedicated military infrastructure.  Two options are available:

1)  If the land mass or region has a coastal town/city and industrial output of at least 0.5 BP, it may build one small ship each half-year.  For each additional 0.5 BP, the area may construct an additional small ship.  Dollar and BP costs remain the same as if built in a miiltary yard.

2)  If the land mass is without either a coastal town/city or the industrial output, the components of a small ship can be built and assembled elsewhere, transported to the desired location, and assembled.  The time and cost of construction will be equal to that of normal construction, plus a penalty to be determined by a Moderator based on the specific circumstances of the ship.

These rules do not apply to small ships built to military standards, such as MTBs.  These will require slipways or docks in government shipyards.

[Guinness]

We need to add a sentence to the rules to make this clear, but the Mods are in agreement that ships built to 0.50 cross sectional strength rules (ie the TB/DD rules) may not be built to mercantile standards.

[Sachmle]

We need to add a sentence to the rules to make this clear, but the Mods are in agreement that ships built to 0.50 cross sectional strength rules (ie the TB/DD rules) may not be built to mercantile standards.

Ooops I knew that..my bad.

[Desertfox]

What if they are banana boats that someone just slapped a couple of torpedoes as deck cargo?

[Guinness]

I've been meaning to do some research on banana boats, but haven't had time.

To the best of my knowledge, the prime examples of the type were converted ex-war surplus USN destroyers. Were there others of similar capabilities built new? I'm under the impression that they were quite the opposite of merchant built.

[Jefgte]

200t of displacement is a coincidence...

This is realy a small coastal patrol boat with 2 TT (to be serious in the job) & equiped for Minesweeping.

This is a military ship.

I have made some SS with 150t - 170t - 180t - 200t - 220t

200t is, for me, the best SS


Jef

[Jefgte]

Here is the drawing of the CTBM & CTB

CTBM - Coastal Torpedo Boat Minesweepers
CTB - Coastal Torpedo Boat



Note the possibility to remove the mine place & the minesweeper material to instal an other M2x40


Jef  ;)

[ctwaterman]

That looks an awful lot like the Miniscule or Mini TB I started building about 2 years ago.   I go it in at 200Ton and with Diesel Electric Drive. 

Im going to modify it so that it comes in a Mine Warfare Sweeper model,
MTB Model, and Harbor patrol net tender model

But then I like it cheap, versitile and damn useful

[Jefgte]

It's difficult to have a serious (powerful) patrol boat with a very low displacement (the minimum BP)
So, add 2 light TT x457 is a solution to have a serious patrol boat with a  Cross-sectional: 0.50 to economise the weight.

Finaly the 200t TB is not a stupid option because, much navies use old small TB for coastal patrol boat job.


I remember to have read a few weeks ago the story of the French Pas de Calais Patrol during WW1.
Much patrol boats were old small TB.


Jef

[Carthaginian]

Small patrol vessels are a staple that we generally overlook here.
Jef, these ships are a triumph for their size class.

[TexanCowboy]

I was thinking about modifying my Haiti-class to those standards, but since I don't have 1916 engines, farwell...(Carth, I still have the plans for the 200 ton Haiti's if you want them...)

[Carthaginian]

TC: I have the Haiti's plans, as well as several for patrol boats that I have cooked up myself- all the way back to the original S-01 class. The CSA has long known it would need massive amounts of cheap convoy escorts in the event of a war abroad... hence the saving of all my old frigates to serve as C&C flagships or tenders.

[Jefgte]

Buenos Aires, NUS CGB laid down 1922 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   5 000 t light; 5 269 t standard; 5 414 t normal; 5 530 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 62.99 ft x 13.06 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 19.20 m  x 3.98 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.21" / 234 mm guns (2x3 guns), 390.95lbs / 177.33kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 791 lbs / 1 266 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     13.12 ft / 4.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 17 000 shp / 12 682 Kw = 21.96 kts
   Range 2 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 261 tons

Complement:
   315 - 410

Cost:
   £1.503 million / $6.014 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 349 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 1 100 tons, 20.3 %
      - Belts: 392 tons, 7.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 231 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 456 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 594 tons, 11.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 699 tons, 49.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 414 tons, 7.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 258 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 456 lbs / 3 382 Kg = 19.1 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (21 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Stern:      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.26 ft / 4.65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 885 Square feet or 1 662 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 555 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Kaiser Kirk]

That looks an awful lot like the Miniscule or Mini TB I started building about 2 years ago.   I go it in at 200Ton and with Diesel Electric Drive. 

I have a set of diesel-electric Torpedo gun boats at that size as well.  Seven built since 1916.

Might be worth fielding a new set and copy the multi-role idea.

[Jefgte]

Testing a 1921 AC.

16000T-3T2x275, NUS AC laid down 1921 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   16 000 t light; 16 676 t standard; 17 927 t normal; 18 929 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   699.93 ft / 695.54 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.80 ft (normal load)
   213.34 m / 212.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.56 m

Armament:
      6 - 10.83" / 275 mm guns (3x2 guns), 661.39lbs / 300.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 617 lbs / 2 094 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.01" / 178 mm   446.19 ft / 136.00 m   11.25 ft / 3.43 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     52.49 ft / 16.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.45" / 240 mm   3.15" / 80 mm      7.99" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.01" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 114 000 shp / 85 044 Kw = 32.04 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 253 tons

Complement:
   774 - 1 007

Cost:
   £4.037 million / $16.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 557 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 3 856 tons, 21.5 %
      - Belts: 1 572 tons, 8.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 895 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 285 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 103 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3 986 tons, 22.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 313 tons, 40.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 928 tons, 10.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 288 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 743 lbs / 8 955 Kg = 31.1 x 10.8 " / 275 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.462
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Stern:      18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 285 Square feet or 3 278 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 681 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform