Design Bureau Guangzhou

[Nobody]

Logi, can you calculate how my latest 28kt BB performs in comparison? That is my immunity zone against your 14" guns and your immunity zone against the 16"/40 960 kg shells.

EDIT:
Come to think about it, those are "only" 16"/L40 not 45. The next generation will be 45 calibers in length.

[Logi]

Immunity Zone of the "Kaap Delgado" to the Project 938 is:

~8,800 yds - 19,960 yds.

Immunity Zone of the Project 938 to the "Kaap Delgado" is:

~10,400 yds - 18,300 yds.

Advantage is that the Project 938 can keep within the immunity zone of both ships. In that case, it's a matter of soft kills rather than sinking and the Project 938 with the excess amount of barrels is designed to soft kill.

Btw, you should write kton rather than kt. Made me think your BB runs at 28kts for a minute there.

[Logi]

Frowns at Logi's 356mm/L50 and notices it is the same gun Italia is using.  The One the British built for the Russians with the Heavy AP round to make it almost as effective as the British 15"/42

All told you designed a ship using the old Tripod of Guns, Speed, Armor... you sacrafice from one or more to increase the other.

I would comment that if your ships belt is Inclined at a 20 Degree slant then you really need to increase its height, others have pointed out to me that slanted belts take up more weight and have to be slightly taller to cover the same volume of space.  Your Belt is only 3.99m tall while your ship is 5.79m something here is exposed.  ;)  And its more then you front and rear end ???

Actually using 356mm/45, but the 356mm/50 is a better penetrator on all levels.

The Project 938
Proof against it's own guns from the range of ~7,500 yds to 19,940 yds.
Proof against the 14"/50 from the range of ~8,500 yds to 20,660 yds.

1000 yds of belt penetration and 720 yds of deck penetration resulting in an immunity zone 1,720 yds shorter.

My belt is inclined at 20 degrees, meaning the belt height is 12'. 6' above water, 6' under water. Yes, the upperworks and ends are exposed, but then everything of value is in the armored box. It makes the ship fragile though, so the Project 938 is something of a glass cannon.

[Logi]

Testing what a 40kton version brings to the table. Assuming to be equipped with 14"/45.

Immunity Zone to CSA 15"/40 Superheavy (2323.79 FPS): ~6,800 yds - ~21,200 yds
Immunity Zone to DKB 15": ~10,600 yds - ~24,400 yds (Btw I mistakenly assumed a lower MV for the DKB gun if it's a 45 caliber. This is the correct version, MV 2713.6 FPS)
Immunity Zone to RRC 14"/45 Superheavy (2446.8 FPS): ~7,500 yds - 23,050 yds
Immunity Zone to Italia 14"/50 Superheavy (2579.17 FPS): ~9,000 yds - ~24,200 yds
Immunity Zone to Orange 16"/40 960kg (2488.58 FPS): ~9,500 yds - ~21,000 yds

Project 938 Guangzhou, RRC Battleship laid down 1924

Displacement:
   40,000 t light; 42,105 t standard; 43,869 t normal; 45,280 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   735.00 ft / 721.00 ft x 119.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   224.03 m / 219.76 m x 36.27 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      16 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1924 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (10x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1924 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 27,400 lbs / 12,428 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.5" / 343 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   19.70 ft / 6.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      12.5" / 318 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,768 shp / 71,443 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,176 tons

Complement:
   1,515 - 1,970

Cost:
   £13.159 million / $52.636 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,876 tons, 6.6 %
   Armour: 14,925 tons, 34.0 %
      - Belts: 5,499 tons, 12.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,043 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 3,619 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,629 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 134 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,154 tons, 7.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,723 tons, 42.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,869 tons, 8.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 322 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,141 lbs / 25,012 Kg = 40.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 9.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
   Roll period: 18.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.597
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.43 ft / 5.92 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 62,548 Square feet or 5,811 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 235 lbs/sq ft or 1,147 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Nobody]

Btw, you should write kton rather than kt. Made me think your BB runs at 28kts for a minute there.

Well, I'm pretty sure t is the Si-Unit name for ton. "k" is kilo (on thousend) so kt is kiloton and not an uncommon abbreviation, and "kn" is knot.
But I will try to remember.

[Logi]

Huh guess you learn something new everyday. I've never known the proper abbreviation of Knot.

[Sachmle]

My 15" is the historic 38 cm/45 SK/L45 gun as used on the RL Bayern class BBs. The MV is 2625fps and the armor penetration is (Non-inclinded)

Range	Side Armor	Deck Armor
10,936 yards (10,000 m)	15.35 in (390 mm)	---
13,670 yards (12,500 m)	13.78 in (350 mm)	---
21,872 yards (20,000 m)	10.43 in (265 mm)	---
27,340 yards (25,000 m)	8.66 in (220 mm)	---

Table from NavWeaps site

[Logi]

Immunity is 9,000 yds and out for the 13.5" @ 20 degrees main belt.

[Logi]

It's a Fuso with Quads, some may tear out their eyes now.

The principle is that recognizing penetrating hits on the belt and deck are night impossible (given current armor thickness) unless with a really heavy shell or large caliber like the 16" (which even then doesn't manage to outperform by volumes). So in effect, what is needed in overwhelming volume of fire over size of weapon.

That is, to render the enemy useless by achieving a high number of soft-kills much faster than the enemy, thereby removing the enemy's capability to fight.

Seeing as the RRC's only battleship caliber large weapon as the 14", it was picked and used. Due to the sheer number of 14" turrets mounted (6 Quads!), there could be no secondary battery due to the 40kt tonnage limit. But it might be for the better as it prevents the situation of secondaries getting in the way of the main guns and in the blast range. (A few twin MG emplacements were to the design as requested though to ward off any potential aerial threats or excessively small ship threats).

The main belt is 20 degrees inclined, making the real height 12'.

The somewhat thick face armor and thin roof armor were added after the observation that face armor had to be 17" thick to match the resistance properties of a  13.8" main belt inclined 20 degrees. That is, 18" thick turret armor gives the turret face an immunity zone larger than the main belt, thus reducing the change a main gun is knocked out of action.

The turret roof was thinned compared to previous designs when observed that having a deck twice the thickness of deck armor was useless (as said ship should be operating within the immunity zone of the ship's main belt and deck armor) and thus the weight savings were used to increased the turret side armor instead.

But well, 6 Quad Turret Battleships make hard compromises.

Fuso-Wannabe, RRC Battleship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   40,000 t light; 42,353 t standard; 44,440 t normal; 46,110 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 120.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 219.46 m x 36.58 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
     24 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 32,932 lbs / 14,938 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   13.14 ft / 4.01 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   18.0" / 457 mm   8.28" / 210 mm      13.0" / 330 mm

  - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 59,905 shp / 44,689 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,757 tons

Complement:
   1,529 - 1,989

Cost:
   £12.221 million / $48.883 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4,116 tons, 9.3 %
   Armour: 13,968 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 3,700 tons, 8.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 962 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 5,180 tons, 11.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,018 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 108 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,232 tons, 5.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,334 tons, 43.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,440 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     46,590 lbs / 21,133 Kg = 34.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 7.9 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 17.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.16 ft / 5.54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 62,061 Square feet or 5,766 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 246 lbs/sq ft or 1,199 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.14
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[TexanCowboy]

That's not gonna fit on there....and that position won't change unless you can somehow draw that...

[Logi]

I can and would but I am busy planning a war.

[snip]

o wow... I getting flashes of what was thought would happen to Agincourt here...

[Logi]

The turret armor is such that it's immunity zone is even greater than the ship's main belt and deck. Meaning unlike certain ships around here, the face armor can not be penetrated so easily.

Also meaning that the turret's and their magazine are safe from enemy shells. If anything, I'm worried more about the short main belt length.

[snip]

I ment capsizing trying to fire a full broadside :)

[Logi]

It is an extremely wide ship with a beam at 120 ft. That's just 1 feet and 1 inch off the Yamato's beam you know.