NUS Shipyards

[P3D]

Back to the quad 9.2"s. I run a reality check on it a year ago or so and rejected the idea.
Reality check: pre-192? bulky engines will need a lot of engine space (as in 110%+ "normal length"). This pushes the quad at the extreme length. Now fast cruisers tend to be long and have really fine BC. Add the flare of the hull fore. While a 9.2" quad would have ~9m barbette diameter and fit by a simple drawing, there won't be any space left below the deck for all the width, or adequate longitudinal strengthening due to the 9m hole in 3-4 decks. Actually, I think 30kts and triple 9"s or twin 11"s would realistically need like ~15000t+ light  just to have the beam fore to fit the turrets (unless tincan armor like on the Panzershiffe is acceptable)
Weight savings are not that big either going quad.

I considered a ~45000t+ 4T4x16" 23kts design, but decided it is better to have two 2T4x16"s ready two years earlier even if their armor is a bit thinner (but still adequate). Not to mention the availability of drydocks and slipways.

[Jefgte]

...I considered a ~45000t+ 4T4x16" 23kts design, but decided it is better to have two 2T4x16"s ready two years earlier even if their armor is a bit thinner (but still adequate)...

2 BBs with 4T2x16" ...They are certainly not 22.500t (45.000t /2)
but over 30.000t.
60.000t in all or 16x16"


Jef

[P3D]

They can certainly be squeezed into 22,500t.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4146.msg46187#msg46187

[Jefgte]

NUS need modern & fast cruisers.
After the rebuilt of the Antofagasta class BB, Callao Shipyards could built cruisers I have tested a 1919 Ajax for NUS

NUS Ajax, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7 600 t light; 7 890 t standard; 8 691 t normal; 9 333 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 56.33 ft x 23.22 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 17.17 m  x 7.08 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 294 lbs / 587 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   419.95 ft / 128.00 m   8.99 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     13.12 ft / 4.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.38" / 35 mm      2.36" / 60 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 76 000 shp / 56 696 Kw = 31.95 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 443 tons

Complement:
   449 - 585

Cost:
   £1.689 million / $6.754 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 162 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 1 266 tons, 14.6 %
      - Belts: 540 tons, 6.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 199 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 498 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2 657 tons, 30.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 355 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 091 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 385 lbs / 3 350 Kg = 68.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Stern:      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.93 ft / 5.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 19 547 Square feet or 1 816 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 483 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

Turret's and Barbette's on 6'' are not allowed until 1922 at the earliest with ships under 7''. Until then, use the mount and hoist setting. Not enclosed, but best you can do with your current tech.

[maddox]

I don't see a problem, the AC/BC rules do not have a lower size limit on main guns.  (Grandfathered, the French Ville Class used 6.5" main guns in failed mount and hoist setups)
The only "limitation" is that secundaries bigger than 8" are seen as " smaller main guns".

Only disadvantage is the 250 tons FC for AC/BC/BB's.

[Jefgte]

Reworking NUS Ajax with mounts & hoist is economical.
Displacement decrease from 7600 to 7400t & speed increase to realy 32kts.

NUSN, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   7 400 t light; 7 686 t standard; 8 475 t normal; 9 107 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 55.77 ft x 22.87 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 17.00 m  x 6.97 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 294 lbs / 587 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   433.07 ft / 132.00 m   8.99 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 76 000 shp / 56 696 Kw = 32.08 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 421 tons

Complement:
   441 - 574

Cost:
   £1.673 million / $6.693 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 162 tons, 1.9 %
   Armour: 1 128 tons, 13.3 %
      - Belts: 553 tons, 6.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 54 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 493 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2 657 tons, 31.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 273 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 075 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 034 lbs / 3 191 Kg = 65.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Stern:      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.82 ft / 5.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 19 354 Square feet or 1 798 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 476 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.70
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

An other Cruiser study, a kind of light Panzerschiff.
This class could be laid down in 1922.

NUSN, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   8 600 t light; 9 027 t standard; 9 886 t normal; 10 574 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 61.94 ft x 23.62 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 18.88 m  x 7.20 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 657 lbs / 1 205 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   374.02 ft / 114.00 m   8.99 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   157.48 ft / 48.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 64 000 shp / 47 744 Kw = 29.90 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 547 tons

Complement:
   495 - 644

Cost:
   £2.436 million / $9.745 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 332 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 1 708 tons, 17.3 %
      - Belts: 734 tons, 7.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 298 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 629 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2 238 tons, 22.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 026 tons, 40.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 286 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 296 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 064 lbs / 4 565 Kg = 27.1 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.424
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.92 ft / 5.46 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 599 Square feet or 2 007 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 560 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Sachmle]

No hoist armor on the Ajax? One good shot from anything bigger than 23cm and it's probably gonna find one of the mags for either the 15cm or 12cm guns and *poof* no more CL.

[Jefgte]

Coastal or colonial BB
Note that this ship could cross Atlantic & work near Kongo or Iberia coast

19750t, NUS Coastal BB laid down 1922 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   19 750 t light; 21 040 t standard; 21 896 t normal; 22 581 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 96.13 ft x 24.86 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 29.30 m  x 7.58 m

Armament:
      6 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2 000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12 641 lbs / 5 734 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm   190.29 ft / 58.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.15" / 80 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   24.44 ft / 7.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.54" / 90 mm, Conning tower: 12.60" / 320 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 36 113 shp / 26 940 Kw = 22.13 kts
   Range 4 000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 542 tons

Complement:
   899 - 1 170

Cost:
   £5.906 million / $23.624 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 545 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 7 507 tons, 34.3 %
      - Belts: 2 919 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 547 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 1 317 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 511 tons, 11.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 212 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1 263 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 066 tons, 41.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 146 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27 609 lbs / 12 523 Kg = 14.1 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Stern:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.26 ft / 4.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 38 306 Square feet or 3 559 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

I like it. It is a effecient design on a ship of 20,000 tons, and has the punch to make it hurt.