More from Design bureau Hamburg

[ledeper]

Lc:
Lc, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   7.765 t light; 8.018 t standard; 9.164 t normal; 10.081 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551,37 ft / 547,90 ft x 62,34 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
   168,06 m / 167,00 m x 19,00 m  x 6,25 m

Armament:
      8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 832 lbs / 377 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm            -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 63.428 shp / 47.317 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.063 tons

Complement:
   467 - 608

Cost:
   £1,583 million / $6,331 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 104 tons, 1,1 %
   Armour: 1.957 tons, 21,4 %
      - Belts: 950 tons, 10,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 153 tons, 1,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 799 tons, 8,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 56 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2.218 tons, 24,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.136 tons, 34,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.399 tons, 15,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 3,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11.784 lbs / 5.345 Kg = 114,4 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 13,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,458
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Stern:      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,09 ft / 4,91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 21.931 Square feet or 2.037 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 462 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

and a 1500t Dd:
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1.511 t light; 1.589 t standard; 2.016 t normal; 2.357 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,31 ft / 390,42 ft x 42,65 ft x 11,48 ft (normal load)
   119,88 m / 119,00 m x 13,00 m  x 3,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (4x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 485 lbs / 220 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   4 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 27.106 shp / 20.221 Kw = 30,00 kts
(trail speed 30,5 knts)
   Range 1.220nm at 30,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 768 tons

Complement:
   149 - 195

Cost:
   £0,524 million / $2,096 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 61 tons, 3,0 %
   Machinery: 843 tons, 41,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 533 tons, 26,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 505 tons, 25,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 3,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     788 lbs / 358 Kg = 13,2 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,77
   Metacentric height 3,5 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 9,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,369
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,39 ft / 4,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 10.119 Square feet or 940 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 82 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 170 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 0,90
      - Overall: 0,53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

1220 miles @30 knts

[ledeper]

Long range Commerce raiding group:
Berlin-Hannover-Bergen, Esc Panzer-shiffe laid down 1920

Displacement:
   20.134 t light; 21.258 t standard; 23.722 t normal; 25.694 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   687,53 ft / 684,06 ft x 78,74 ft x 26,08 ft (normal load)
   209,56 m / 208,50 m x 24,00 m  x 7,95 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.674,25lbs / 759,43kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 10.530 lbs / 4.776 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   387,14 ft / 118,00 m   13,94 ft / 4,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   387,14 ft / 118,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      9,84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 84.566 shp / 63.086 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.436 tons

Complement:
   955 - 1.242

Cost:
   £5,257 million / $21,030 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.316 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 6.516 tons, 27,5 %
      - Belts: 3.100 tons, 13,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.142 tons, 4,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.134 tons, 9,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2.957 tons, 12,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.894 tons, 37,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.589 tons, 15,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26.931 lbs / 12.216 Kg = 16,1 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 39.064 Square feet or 3.629 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 784 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,07
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Lr/Lc, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   7.295 t light; 7.525 t standard; 8.864 t normal; 9.936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551,37 ft / 547,90 ft x 62,34 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
   168,06 m / 167,00 m x 19,00 m  x 6,25 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 626 lbs / 284 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   9,48 ft / 2,89 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,91" / 150 mm   3,94" / 100 mm            -
   2nd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 61.678 shp / 46.012 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.411 tons

Complement:
   456 - 593

Cost:
   £1,472 million / $5,890 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 78 tons, 0,9 %
   Armour: 1.700 tons, 19,2 %
      - Belts: 741 tons, 8,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 115 tons, 1,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 789 tons, 8,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 54 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2.157 tons, 24,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.010 tons, 34,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.569 tons, 17,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 3,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11.874 lbs / 5.386 Kg = 115,3 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,34
   Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 12,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,443
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Stern:      15,78 ft / 4,81 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,09 ft / 4,91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 21.663 Square feet or 2.013 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 448 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,23
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1920

Displacement:
   1.498 t light; 1.563 t standard; 2.021 t normal; 2.388 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,31 ft / 390,42 ft x 42,65 ft x 11,48 ft (normal load)
   119,88 m / 119,00 m x 13,00 m  x 3,50 m

Armament:
      6 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns (3x2 guns), 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
   Weight of broadside 365 lbs / 166 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 27.169 shp / 20.268 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 826 tons

Complement:
   149 - 195

Cost:
   £0,503 million / $2,011 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 46 tons, 2,3 %
   Machinery: 871 tons, 43,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 506 tons, 25,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 524 tons, 25,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 3,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     801 lbs / 363 Kg = 13,4 x 4,9 " / 125 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,83
   Metacentric height 3,7 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 9,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,370
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,39 ft / 4,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 160,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10.122 Square feet or 940 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 86 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 161 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 0,86
      - Overall: 0,52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped

[Tanthalas]

for the Pship you may as well go with a full on BC if your going to go to 20K, its already going to end up facing them and its not fast enough to run away from most all of the new ones.

[maddox]

The Pantsershiffe is breakfast for the Montmedies. Please build a few.

[Jefgte]

Of course, that's not too difficult for a 40.000t BB to win against a 20.000t !!!

A small breakfast...


:D  :D  :D

[Tanthalas]

Of course, that's not too difficult for a 40.000t BB to win against a 20.000t !!!

A small breakfast...


:D  :D  :D

My issue with em jef is that they just arnt fast enough or armored enough.  the I's on 4K more light could likley out fight them, and anything smaller will just run away.

[Kaiser Kirk]

I don't really like the 20k vessel.  In large part because I'm not a fan of 6-gun ships. When I have them, I tend to make steady gun platforms a priority.

I question triple 15" on a 78 foot beam. Looking for Capital ships without TDSs...  That's only 8 feet more than the triple 11" armed Graf Spees, and 2' less than the twin 12" armed South Carolinas, 13' less than the triple 12" of Alaska. 

I disagree that the I's, at least the OTL version,  could outfight them. The I's were slower,  The I's armor would only serve to arm the fuses of the 15" guns, while the 9-10" armor would be sufficient to stop I's 12" at battle ranges.

The guns and armor are sufficient so that she can overwhelm older 10-12" gunned vessels, which the speed also is decent for.

However if you are a raider, you don't want to get in such fights. Further, as Tanthalas mentions- with a 1920 laydown date, and 1923 completion, do you expect to be facing older 12" gunned ships, or something newer, and how does she stack up against that newer foe?

Not keen on a 20kt ship meant to operate far from home lacking a torpedo defense either, it's a large and fairly vulnerable investment.

You also don't want to be 6,000 miles from home and discover that some light cruisers riddled the ends of your ship with common shells, and you are now slowly flooding because you have a short belt and no end belts.

On the 1920 destroyer, the BC is too low. Minimum is 0.38.

[Sachmle]

I'm pretty sure Tanthalas was referring to the Nverse I's not the OTL ones.

[Tanthalas]

I'm pretty sure Tanthalas was referring to the Nverse I's not the OTL ones.

Yeah I was sam, the Nverse I's have heavier armor than they do, a TDS, end belts, are just as fast, and to top it off are good Sea Boats and Steady Fire Platforms.  in a fight I personaly would bet on the I's over these.  as to the speed the lighter  Raiders can all make 30 Knots+ so they just motor scooter if they see one of these coming.