Design Bureau Hong Kong

[Logi]

Starting a new thread, for ships that are actually planned as the latter thread has gotten a bit cluttered. This one will be for destroyers and torpedo boats. And Light Cruisers

Now, slated to be produced in the year 1920, the DD20.001 design.

DD20.001, RRC Destroyer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,073 t standard; 1,160 t normal; 1,229 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.00 ft / 383.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   119.79 m / 116.74 m x 9.14 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
     8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on side amidships, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 295 lbs / 134 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27,728 shp / 20,685 Kw = 33.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Range    222nm at 33.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 156 tons

  Trial Speed = 34.00 kts

Complement:
   99 - 129

Cost:
   £0.350 million / $1.400 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 37 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 14 tons, 1.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 14 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 586 tons, 50.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 313 tons, 26.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 160 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     220 lbs / 100 Kg = 6.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.393
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 84
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.02 ft / 0.62 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.45 ft / 3.19 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 194.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 37.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,045 Square feet or 654 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 48 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 0.60
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weight:
25t FCS
24t Torpedoes
 1t Rice Cookers

[Guinness]

Twin deck mounts need hoists I'm afraid. This may be a good thing though, as I'm not so sure that 12 TTs (presumably triple tubes) and 4 twin 105mm gun mounts will fit, unless maybe the TTs are on either beam.

[Sachmle]

Twin deck mounts need hoists I'm afraid. This may be a good thing though, as I'm not so sure that 12 TTs (presumably triple tubes) and 4 twin 105mm gun mounts will fit, unless maybe the TTs are on either beam.

Could be 6 tubes with reloads. Seems some list total number of torpedoes and count them in misc weight, while others list total tubes and count the torpedoes in the misc weight

[Guinness]

You should list the total number of torpedoes in that blank in SS, as it uses that in it's stability and hull space calculations, and also account for their weight in misc weight, as SS fails to account for torpedo weight (unfortunately).

Even if they're reloads, it's going to mean a cramped deck I think (at least IMHO).

[Logi]

I do believe its arranged similar to the OTL US Wickes-class DDs. Based on the size of the Wicke-class which I'm basing this off, and the size of this ship, I would *think* have enough space, even if its cramped. I'll go fix the twin-gun-hoist problem.

20DD001, RRC Destroyer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,055 t standard; 1,141 t normal; 1,210 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.00 ft / 383.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   119.79 m / 116.74 m x 9.14 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
     4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 224 lbs / 102 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,076 shp / 21,691 Kw = 33.50 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
  Range    213nm at 33.50 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 155 tons

  Trial Speed = 34.50 kts

Complement:
   97 - 127

Cost:
   £0.337 million / $1.348 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 28 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 600 tons, 52.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 311 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 141 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 52 tons, 4.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     222 lbs / 101 Kg = 4.2 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.84

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.386
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.77 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.02 ft / 0.62 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.62 ft / 3.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 194.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 39.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,023 Square feet or 652 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 47 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 0.64
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weight:
25t FCS
24t Torpedoes
 3t Kitchen Add-ons

[Guinness]

I like this one better. Having half the number of gun crew (or nearly half at least) will help make a little more space on deck to fight her. Speed is quite good. The 120mm will have more punch.

Is 6 hours at top speed adequate for the roles you see her filling?

[Logi]

I do believe so. If they need to operate beyond that, I have a few oilers that I'm currently building for that purpose.

[The Rock Doctor]

The L:B ratio's too high.  Otherwise, not bad.

[Logi]

Why is the L:B ratio too high? What negative effects does the 12.77 L:B ratio generate?

But, here's a design with a 12 L:B ratio.

20DD001, RRC Destroyer laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,045 t standard; 1,130 t normal; 1,198 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.00 ft / 373.00 ft x 31.00 ft x 8.80 ft (normal load)
   119.79 m / 113.69 m x 9.45 m  x 2.68 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 224 lbs / 101 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,610 shp / 22,089 Kw = 33.50 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Range    206nm at 33.50 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 153 tons

   Trial Speed = 34.50 kts

Complement:
   96 - 126

Cost:
   £0.336 million / $1.345 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 28 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 599 tons, 53.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 314 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 130 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 49 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     224 lbs / 102 Kg = 4.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.80

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.389
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.31 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 87
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 7.41 ft / 2.26 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.50 ft / 2.90 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.98 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 194.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 42.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,076 Square feet or 657 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 45 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.48
      - Longitudinal: 0.70
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weight:
25t FCS
24t Torpedoes

[Sachmle]

Why is the L:B ratio too high? What negative effects does the 12.77 L:B ratio generate?

Length to Beam Ratio

Ratios should be reflective of the size and speed of the vessel.

Length to Beam Ratios of 12:1 (smaller, faster ships) or 10:1 (larger or slower ships) or less are reasonable and do not risk moderator-inflicted incidents.  Ships approaching circular shape risk moderator-inflicted performance issues.

[The Rock Doctor]

Mmm - note that the cross-sectional hull strength is .48...

[Logi]

I know the rules, Sam, I was asking from a designer's perspective what negative effects such a L:B ratio generate IRL.

[Logi]

As I said IRL. Read what I type, you just starting to piss me off now...

[TexanCowboy]

What?!?!?!? That was supposed to be comical. Wait, I forgot the  ;D at the end.

[Tanthalas]

As I said IRL. Read what I type, you just starting to piss me off now...

For Purposes of this sim the IRL Efects dont matter Logi, the Rules matter (you have no idea how much saying that just hurt).  and the real penelty in the Nverse is not quite so extream as what TC posted... That said you could expect random problems to crop up for the boats on a fairly regular basis.