Design Bureau Hamburg Bb project

[ledeper]

BB 20, Esc Bb laid down 1920

Displacement:
   46.754 t light; 49.063 t standard; 52.336 t normal; 54.954 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   819,01 ft / 814,96 ft x 108,27 ft x 31,99 ft (normal load)
   249,63 m / 248,40 m x 33,00 m  x 9,75 m

Armament:
      6 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21.928 lbs / 9.947 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   459,32 ft / 140,00 m   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   459,32 ft / 140,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   660,43 ft / 201,30 m   29,72 ft / 9,06 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   3rd:   2,95" / 75 mm   1,97" / 50 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 135.192 shp / 100.853 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.891 tons

Complement:
   1.729 - 2.249

Cost:
   £10,874 million / $43,497 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.741 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 18.676 tons, 35,7 %
      - Belts: 5.394 tons, 10,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.430 tons, 2,7 %
      - Armament: 4.059 tons, 7,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 7.378 tons, 14,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 415 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 4.727 tons, 9,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 19.860 tons, 37,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.582 tons, 10,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 750 tons, 1,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68.650 lbs / 31.139 Kg = 33,9 x 15,9 " / 405 mm shells or 10,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Stern:      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,86 ft / 6,36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 67.530 Square feet or 6.274 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1.069 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,06
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Armor disposition as in Ocean class
Misc Weight:
2x FC :500t
L/RW/L:25 t
Seendes augen :25 t
Flag faciliteies:50 t
Starshells :50 t
Reserve:100t

[Sachmle]

You did that turret thing again w/ the twin where you listed them as "On side, raised" instead of "On centerline, raised".

[ledeper]

GRRRRRRRRR: :D :D :D

BB 20, Esc Bb laid down 1920

Displacement:
   46.754 t light; 49.063 t standard; 52.336 t normal; 54.954 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   819,01 ft / 814,96 ft x 108,27 ft x 31,99 ft (normal load)
   249,63 m / 248,40 m x 33,00 m  x 9,75 m

Armament:
     6 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x3 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21.928 lbs / 9.947 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   459,32 ft / 140,10 m   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   459,32 ft / 140,10 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length
   

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   660,43 ft / 201,30 m   29,72 ft / 9,06 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   3rd:   2,95" / 75 mm   1,97" / 50 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 135.192 shp / 100.853 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.891 tons

Complement:
   1.729 - 2.249

Cost:
   £10,874 million / $43,497 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.741 tons, 5,2 %
   Armour: 18.676 tons, 35,7 %
      - Belts: 5.394 tons, 10,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.430 tons, 2,7 %
      - Armament: 4.059 tons, 7,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 7.378 tons, 14,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 415 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 4.727 tons, 9,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 19.860 tons, 37,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.582 tons, 10,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 750 tons, 1,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68.650 lbs / 31.139 Kg = 33,9 x 15,9 " / 405 mm shells or 10,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Stern:      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,86 ft / 6,36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 67.530 Square feet or 6.274 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1.069 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,06
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Armor disposition as in Ocean class
Misc Weight:
2x FC :500t
L/RW/L:25 t
Seendes augen :25 t
Flag faciliteies:50 t
Starshells :50 t
Reserve:100t

[TexanCowboy]

You need cruisers. A lot of them

[Tanthalas]

You need cruisers. A lot of them

Cruisers are so so BORING though... BBs are alot more fun to build

[Sachmle]

You need cruisers. A lot of them

Nah...he lets the Bavarian's bring the cruisers...and the Dutch bring the MiniLightCruisers, er Detroyers.

[Tanthalas]

You need cruisers. A lot of them

Nah...he lets the Bavarian's bring the cruisers...and the Dutch bring the MiniLightCruisers, er Detroyers.

... you know my DDs kind of resemble that remark

[ledeper]

The 18" option:

BB 21, Esc Bb laid down 1921

Displacement:
   48.620 t light; 51.257 t standard; 54.594 t normal; 57.264 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   819,01 ft / 814,96 ft x 108,27 ft x 31,99 ft (normal load)
   249,63 m / 248,40 m x 33,00 m  x 9,75 m

Armament:
      9 - 17,91" / 455 mm guns (3x3 guns), 2.874,11lbs / 1.303,67kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1921 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 27.526 lbs / 12.486 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   508,53 ft / 155,00 m   15,78 ft / 4,81 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   508,53 ft / 155,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   660,43 ft / 201,30 m   29,72 ft / 9,06 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   0,67" / 17 mm   1,97" / 50 mm            -
   3rd:   0,59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 140.221 shp / 104.605 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.007 tons

Complement:
   1.785 - 2.321

Cost:
   £13,409 million / $53,637 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3.441 tons, 6,3 %
   Armour: 19.062 tons, 34,9 %
      - Belts: 5.856 tons, 10,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.430 tons, 2,6 %
      - Armament: 3.780 tons, 6,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 7.568 tons, 13,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 427 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 4.829 tons, 8,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 20.539 tons, 37,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.974 tons, 10,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 750 tons, 1,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     64.893 lbs / 29.435 Kg = 22,6 x 17,9 " / 455 mm shells or 9,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,677
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Stern:      20,77 ft / 6,33 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,86 ft / 6,36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 69.275 Square feet or 6.436 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 222 lbs/sq ft or 1.083 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Armor disposition as in Ocean class
Misc Weight:
2x FC :500t
L/RW/L:25 t
Seendes augen :25 t
Flag faciliteies:50 t
Starshells :50 t
Reserve:100t

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I think that such guns are deserving of a better fire platform than 52% ... and my general feeling about this ship is that it would be much better with one or two knots less, but thicker armour.
Borys

[ledeper]

Admittedly but I seriously doubt that I ever will build ships with a 455mm gun,I think ill rather improve my 405 mm gun to a 405mm cal 55 gun.

[TexanCowboy]

BUILD CRUISERS!!! BUILD CRUISERS!!!

A 16'' L55 would wear very quickly, something like 150-175 shots per barrel.

[Borys]

Ahoj!

BUILD CRUISERS!!! BUILD CRUISERS!!!

A 16'' L55 would wear very quickly, something like 150-175 shots per barrel.

Design the gun for quick barrel/liner change. That's what the Italians did in OTL.

Borys

[Tanthalas]

Admittedly but I seriously doubt that I ever will build ships with a 455mm gun,I think ill rather improve my 405 mm gun to a 405mm cal 55 gun.

thats what im planing to do with Rohan

Design the gun for quick barrel/liner change. That's what the Italians did in OTL.
Borys

Asfaloth & Maethor 8X15.5/45 1951 pound shell
Dagor & Hathel 8X15.5/50 2200 pound shell
Draug & Ohtar 8X15.5/55 2500 pound shell

[Borys]

Ahoj!

Dagor & Hathel 8X15.5/50 2200 pound shell
Draug & Ohtar 8X15.5/55 2500 pound shell

Hmm ... not too heavy? I see 2200 lbs as fitting for a 16", and the 2500 lbs as appropriate for 16,5" or so.
Borys

[TexanCowboy]

US super-heavy 2,700 shell. It can be done, but with a corresponding loss in MV and, therefore, penetration.