Aircraft of the Republic

[ctwaterman]

*evil chuckle*

But I made you look didnt I..... ;D

There are a bunch of Experimental Aircraft in 1914 and 1916 that used metal in varrying amounts.   The Breguet_14 was an early metal frame aircraft and began serious production in 1917.  The Germans also had a few metal aircraft that saw combat action in 1917 and 1918.

[Logi]

Oh, I already knew about the Junkers J1. I didn't see a problem there.

As for the engines, indeed it is rare, but I'm using ONE 300hp engine, not multiple. There were planes that used 300hp engines in 1916. I don't see a problem there.

And like I said, I would like to see how it works out first.

[Sachmle]

*evil chuckle*

But I made you look didnt I..... ;D

There are a bunch of Experimental Aircraft in 1914 and 1916 that used metal in varrying amounts.   The Breguet_14 was an early metal frame aircraft and began serious production in 1917.  The Germans also had a few metal aircraft that saw combat action in 1917 and 1918.

Not really. I didn't know about the Breguet 14, but I am more than familiar with the J1.

[Logi]

Metal Reinforcements in the plane structure, nothing else (IE: Doped Fabric on light metal on the leading edge of the wings and metal supports in the fuselage around places like the gun rack and the cockpit). Changes have been done to the hull structure to reduce redundancies and the fuel load has been reduced. The result is a much faster plane, though shorter-legged, and with more anti-infantry potential.

Wing is shaped gull wing formation, changing point from -5 degrees to +10 degrees.

The purpose of the plane is still to dive and attack troops on the ground. As usual, if the plane accelerates too fast on the dive or dives too steeply, the plane is unrecoverable.

The Engine is now a 200HP Rotary for weight savings.

Name: TACO  Ca. II
Contractor: TACO (Tien-Day Aviation Corporation)
Type: Close-Air Support Concept Model (Mono)
Crew: 2 - Pilot, Gunner
Length: 43 feet
Wingspan: 45 feet
Height: 11 feet
Empty Weight: ~1,000 lbs
MTOW: ~2,000 lbs
Engine: 1 x Dading 200HP Engine Air-Cooled Rotary
Maximum speed: 140 mph
Range: 568 miles
Ceiling: 6,000 meters (19,685 feet)
Armament: 2 x twin 7.62mm Forward-Firing MG (3 and 9 o' clock) - 500 round per barrel
Payload: None

With help from Tan

[Carthaginian]

500 rounds?
Man, you're pretty heavy on the ammo there.

[Tanthalas]

500 rounds?
Man, you're pretty heavy on the ammo there.

Yeah but he wouldnt give it up LOL, I tryed to convince him he could get by with half that...

[Carthaginian]

1000 rounds of .308 Winchester @ 422 gr./0.96 oz. each!
A little figuring... (1000 * 0.96) / 16 = 60 lbs of ammunition alone!
Tack on the weight of a pair of average .30 caliber machine gun- call it 30 lbs. a piece- and this little birdie is lugging quite a hunk of metal!

120 pounds of just weapons.

[Logi]

???

.30 Springfield weights at ~154gr. each.

500 rounds X 4 guns is 2000 round which figures with the round weight to 44lb.

Take 30lb a piece X 4 that's 120lb.

So total is 164lb, not 180lb.

The ammo weight is not considered in the empty weight.

[Walter]

It's still a lot and looking at the historical speed records, I really thing you'd need the 1917/1918 tech to achieve that speed.

[Logi]

The engine is light and powerful. Considering a 110hp engine on the same weight frame can go 110mph in 1916, a 200hp engine on the same weight frame should make 140mph.

[Logi]

Anti-tank aircraft discuss sprouted this idea, not used for anti-tank but anti-TB. This idea is still unrefined so apart from empty weight/mtow weigh, engine HP, gun and shell weight; all the other numbers are estimates.

Name: TACO  Ca. III
Contractor: TACO (Tien-Day Aviation Corporation)
Type: Close-Air Support Concept Model (Mono)
Crew: 1 - Pilot
Length: 37 feet
Wingspan: 45 feet
Height: 13 feet
Empty Weight: ~2,600 lbs
MTOW: ~3,400 lbs
Engine: 1 x Dading 240HP Engine Water-Cooled Inline
Maximum speed: 100 mph
Range: 440 miles
Ceiling: 6,000 meters (19,685 feet)
Armament: 1 x37mm Cannon strapped in Pylon underneath Fuselage - 25 rounds
Payload: None

[Carthaginian]

???

.30 Springfield weights at ~154gr. each.

You are counting the BULLET HEAD.
I'm counting the COMPLETE CARTRIDGE.
150 grains is a rather light .308 bullet at that, a more average figure would be 180 grains (what I used).
You're leaving out a large percentage of the round's weight.

[Logi]

Its an MG, solid bullet. Last time I checked it said 151 grams.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_30cal_MG.htm

[Guinness]

I think we have a crisis of units here. I believe any measurements for this ammunition you'll find are likely to be in grains (gr) not grams (usually just g or gm), including that at that navweaps link. 100 grains = 6.479 grams.

Looking it up, the complete US Army M2 0.30-06 springfield ball-type round, including brass case and charge is 416 grains (26.96 grams). Or we could uses Carthaginian's 422 grains per. It matters not so much. So let's just say 27 grams per. 422 grains = 0.96 ounces. So 1000 rounds = 960 ounces, or 60 pounds (or 27.2 kg).

The navweaps link cites only the weight of the projectile, not the stuff that makes it go.

[Carthaginian]

Uhm... that is talking about this.

THAT part of the round is the 'projectile,' and that is the weight given on the NavWeps page.
I've handloaded a .30-'06 rifle since I was 12, and I am intimately familiar with the weights of solid-core, copper-jacketed penetrators... though I generally prefer 220 grain bullets.

Guinness,

I guess that the Army used a 150 grain bullet.
I used 180 grains in my figures because it's about the most widely used load for a .30-'06 these days- though like I mentioned above, I generally shoot heavier rounds.