New New Swiss ships for 1919

[Jefgte]

IMO, the aft plane "ll be destroyed by heavy sea  ???


Jef

[Desertfox]

A blimp destroyer....  something new. Doesn't have any historical counterpart....  Me like.

Actually that's the second blimp destroyer in N-verse. I built a version of the Lavi class destroyers, as a blimp scout for New Zion.

IMO, the aft plane "ll be destroyed by heavy sea 

Unfortunately, that's the only place to stick it while carrying a ballon. If no ballon, it can be moved up, there's a foldable crane right above the boats, in front of the rear gun for that purpose.

[Jefgte]

you could perhaps place the baloon aft, at the stern plane place & the aft plane at the place of the baloon.


Jef

[Desertfox]

New Switzerland needs alot of destroyers, and I need them yesterday. So to get more hulls in the water, I'm going to buil 20 of these instead of the first batch of Kidds (which will get delayed once again...). These are kinda slow but still pretty decent destroyers.


NSS Johann Wys, New Switzerland Destroyer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   742 t light; 788 t standard; 927 t normal; 1,038 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   320.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 9.20 ft (normal load)
   97.54 m / 97.54 m x 8.84 m  x 2.80 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 176 lbs / 80 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 270
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 17,956 shp / 13,395 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 249 tons

Complement:
   83 - 109

Cost:
   £0.247 million / $0.990 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 430 tons, 46.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 247 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 185 tons, 20.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     265 lbs / 120 Kg = 8.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.380
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (30 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.65 ft / 3.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,658 Square feet or 526 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.96
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

Short ranged for the Swiss.... You could get more out of this ship by going to a 12:1 beam ratio. Remember, here it's 12:1, Wesworld it's 11:1

[Tanthalas]

10' shorter than my 1K toners with a similar loadout and honestly I have had trouble making everything fit.  IDK you might honestly want to shave a gun off em.

[TexanCowboy]

This is all centerline, as well...but two are raised. That may help.

[Guinness]

Not every ship has to be built to the limits of the hull dimension rules.

*cracks nuckles and shakes kinks out of arms before typing this*

I think the BC is way too low for a ship of this size. The ends would be very fine, and I think she'd be fragile and/or wet in high seas (despite what SS's seaboat rating might say). Useful deck space is certainly limited as has been pointed out. I think she's too slow too, but then again, that's how most torpedo craft in the nverse have been built (so far).

Below decks, the machinery arrangement will be interesting. Do the diesels get their own space? I expect the diesels and electric motor(s) drive the center shaft probably?

The main battery allowance is large. RN ships in WW1 only shipped 120 rounds per 4" gun. US flush deckers carried 100.

Honestly, I've come to the conclusion, as P3D did before me, that we push DD's too far. We probably need a sliding scale for allowable BCs, among other things. IMHO this ship should have a higher BC, lower freeboard, one less gun, 2 less torpedoes, and more speed, probably 31.5 or 32 knots according to SS, with seakeeping around 0.75 or lower. As it is now though, this ship is both "legal" and consistent with Nverse design trends to this point, however.

[Desertfox]

Diesels get center shaft, turbines get the outsides, the ship can make 20kts on diesels alone.

Note that I use my destroyers more like mini-cruisers than oversize torpedoboats. The range on these ships is huge for a destroyer, I need the seakeeping at least 1.0, and am prepared to drop speed to gain both. Yeah I'm pushing it, but then again this ship is still outclassed by most new destroyers being built.

[Guinness]

Just to give you an idea, here's what the hull of this ship might look like at the waterline (based on SS's waterplane area):



Very very fine.

then again this ship is still outclassed by most new destroyers being built

My mother used to say something about following people off tall buildings.... :)

[Desertfox]

Better? It also now matches the 'Kidd class' picture the Swiss Ships Identification thread.


NSS Johann Wys, New Switzerland Destroyer laid down 1920

Displacement:
   741 t light; 777 t standard; 915 t normal; 1,025 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   342.00 ft / 342.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)
   104.24 m / 104.24 m x 9.14 m  x 2.44 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 176 lbs / 80 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 17,282 shp / 12,893 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 247 tons

Complement:
   83 - 108

Cost:
   £0.244 million / $0.976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 420 tons, 45.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 257 tons, 28.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 173 tons, 19.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     285 lbs / 129 Kg = 8.9 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.390
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (30 %):      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.80 ft / 3.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,283 Square feet or 584 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 123 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.78
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Walter]

Just to give you an idea, here's what the hull of this ship might look like at the waterline (based on SS's waterplane area)

I would assume that that picture is ~38% coverage. I also assume that it would look a lot different if you were to add the third dimension to your figure...

[Guinness]

yep. It would look like an elongated half cigar below the waterline (at best).

EDIT: To expand: Short of modeling a 3d hull, which I don't have the wherewithal to do, the best expression we have of BC's effect on hull shape and deck area is the SS waterplane area, so that's what I've gone by here. It gives us an idea of the relative sanity of what we're putting in Springsharp.

Frankly, our insanely low BCs are a product of our obsession with seaboat quality, I believe. My digging and simming of OTL ships has continued, and I've yet to find one with a seaboat quality rating approaching 1.0. This I believe is a function mostly of the deficiency in how SS calculates that. Comparitively lower BCs always improve seakeeping for SS, but I believe that shouldn't always be true.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
My sig is my opinion.
Borys

[TexanCowboy]

So, your opinion is BAMBI MUST DIE!? A worthy opinion. I should name a ship after it.  ;D