New New Swiss ships for 1919

[Tanthalas]

Personaly I thought ya shoulda kept em but what the hell, if your going to sell sell as high as you can (but it dosnt hurt to remember which governments are inclined toward the NS)

But enough on that topic back to NS Ships ^.^

[mentat]

the Heavy Cruiser is a nice design - but i do wonder about need for 9", 6" and 4" - on a 600' Cruiser - seems a bit crowded and ?unnecessary - would a unified secondary battery - 6" or say 5.5" be better ...

[Desertfox]

That was a carry over from my Armored Cruisers, which had 9", 6" and 4". Here is an alternate version with less armor and no 6" secondaries. Question is, is the loss of both worth the 3,700 tons saved by going with this design?


NSS Phoenix, New Switzerland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1919

Displacement:
   11,007 t light; 11,587 t standard; 13,402 t normal; 14,854 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   597.23 ft / 590.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 27.50 ft (normal load)
   182.04 m / 179.83 m x 17.98 m  x 8.38 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.00" / 229 mm guns (4x2 guns), 364.50lbs / 165.33kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,572 lbs / 1,620 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   395.00 ft / 120.40 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      5.00" / 127 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.70" / 43 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 87,777 shp / 65,482 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,900nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,266 tons

Complement:
   622 - 809

Cost:
   £2.611 million / $10.444 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 446 tons, 3.3 %
   Armour: 2,279 tons, 17.0 %
      - Belts: 900 tons, 6.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 591 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 752 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,117 tons, 23.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,995 tons, 37.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,395 tons, 17.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 170 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,773 lbs / 6,247 Kg = 37.8 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (45 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.54 ft / 6.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,896 Square feet or 2,220 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

Well balanced cruiser
Good armament, protection & speed.

Did you test "2 raised mounts" ?


;)

[Desertfox]

I'm going to go with the cheaper Phoenix design, I can use the 7,000 saved tons.

These got delayed a couple of years, so they could get better engines. Costs me 200 tons more per ship, but the extra 2 knots should keep these up to date. They also get diesel generators, allowing silent operations without needing to use the steam turbines.

Kidd class, New Switzerland Super Destroyer laid down 1919

Displacement:
   1,101 t light; 1,155 t standard; 1,340 t normal; 1,488 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   340.00 ft / 340.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 12.20 ft (normal load)
   103.63 m / 103.63 m x 8.84 m  x 3.72 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 176 lbs / 80 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 270
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 28,807 shp / 21,490 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 4,100nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 333 tons

Complement:
   109 - 143

Cost:
   £0.338 million / $1.353 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 22 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 700 tons, 52.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 351 tons, 26.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 240 tons, 17.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 27 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     297 lbs / 135 Kg = 9.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.390
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (45 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.80 ft / 3.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,038 Square feet or 561 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 144 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Tanthalas]

TBH DF Having drawn my 1601 class DDs I think the Kidds are going to suffer heavily from NEDS.  there will barely be enough space for the 4" guns (the 1601 class has 5X4.5" and is only 6' shorter).  So honestly I dont see where you would mount the 1.57s since the 1601s are almost NEDS (I originaly wanted to mount 2 pair of 1.5" guns on them but when I started drawing them I realised there just wasnt Room)

[Guinness]

I think all that stuff could fit, but DD's tend to have their armament a lot closer to the ends. So forecastle and quarterdeck probably need to be a lot shorter, something like 10% each.

The propulsion system: I don't know for sure, but having stood close to a decently sized diesel (~800 ihp) while it's running, that thing ain't quiet. In fact, I bet steam turbines might be quieter.

[Desertfox]

The US 4-pipers had 4x4", 1x3", and 12x21" TT on 315ft. The 40mm's would not be on the centerline but on the sides.

[mentat]

i really like the revised Hvy Cruiser (though a bit low on steadiness)  - pity if will not be built - but i think 10 x 6" or similar pack more punch than 20 x 4"

the DD - agree looks fine to fit in

[Desertfox]

New Switzerland NEEDS some more subs.  ;D
 


20? to be built

E-Class (1910)
500 tons
Armament: 4 Torpedo Tubes (all fow) 2 reloads, 1 x 76.2mm cannon fow, 1 x 50cal MG aft
Range: Surface, 4,000 nm, 21 days @ 8kts, Submerged, 60 nm, 12 hours, @ 5kts
Speed: Surface, 14kts, Submerged, 10kts

[Guinness]

On subs and MTBs I think it's useful to list which tech year this ship is to built to.

[Desertfox]

That's the 1910 next to the ship's class. ;-)

[Guinness]

See I read that and saw 1918. Thanks though :)

[Desertfox]

A dedicated scout cruiser. Carries either a floatplane and an observation ballon, or 4 floatplanes. The diesels are for towing the ballon at 20kts.



NSS Skua, New Switzerland Scout Cruiser laid down 1919

Displacement:
   1,401 t light; 1,478 t standard; 1,789 t normal; 2,038 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   340.00 ft / 340.00 ft x 34.00 ft x 12.90 ft (normal load)
   103.63 m / 103.63 m x 10.36 m  x 3.93 m

Armament:
      3 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 332 lbs / 151 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 220
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 27,467 shp / 20,491 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 5,900nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 560 tons

Complement:
   136 - 178

Cost:
   £0.427 million / $1.707 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 42 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 13 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 798 tons, 44.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 399 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 388 tons, 21.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 8.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     443 lbs / 201 Kg = 4.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.44 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.70 ft / 3.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,207 Square feet or 670 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[maddox]

A blimp destroyer....  something new. Doesn't have any historical counterpart....  Me like.