Trade Defence Ship?

[Borys]

Ahoj
Too fast. And poor shooter.
Borys

[miketr]

Ahoj
Too fast. And poor shooter.
Borys

Its a fairly straight forward cruiser design.  Also what do you mean by poor shooter?  Too few main guns?

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

Wheeler's protection is no better - and, in respect to deck armor, worse - than this design, and she'll be facing much heavier incoming fire.  She can certainly control the range, but it is not to her advantage to engage in a long-range duel.  I suppose there's room for a bank of fish if somebody wishes to fight it out up close, though.

If there are two Wheelers, well, sure, she's not in a good position - but will any 10,000 t ship be in a good position to fight two 16,000 t ships?  Probably not.  

This would interesting to have gamed out.

[Borys]

By poor shooter I mean the 50% fire platform.


The cheapo solution for convoy escort.
ship laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   10 081 t light; 10 688 t standard; 12 344 t normal; 13 668 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   473,60 ft / 473,60 ft x 68,50 ft x 23,00 ft (normal load)
   144,35 m / 144,35 m x 20,88 m  x 7,01 m

Armament:
      6 - 11,00" / 279 mm guns (3x2 guns), 665,50lbs / 301,87kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,25" / 31,8 mm guns in single mounts, 0,99lbs / 0,45kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 197 lbs / 2 357 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   360,30 ft / 109,82 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   3,00" / 76 mm   113,00 ft / 34,44 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
     Main Belt covers 117% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,00" / 229 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 6,00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 17 626 ihp / 13 149 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 980 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   585 - 761

Cost:
   £2,140 million / $8,559 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 662 tons, 5,4%
   Armour: 3 500 tons, 28,4%
      - Belts: 1 651 tons, 13,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 705 tons, 5,7%
      - Armour Deck: 1 076 tons, 8,7%
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1 152 tons, 9,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 417 tons, 35,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 263 tons, 18,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 570 lbs / 7 063 Kg = 23,4 x 11,0 " / 279 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 15,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,579
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,00 ft / 8,23 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (20%):      22,00 ft / 6,71 m (15,00 ft / 4,57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Stern:      15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,80 ft / 5,12 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,6%
   Waterplane Area: 23 265 Square feet or 2 161 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,72
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[miketr]

Not all ships can have the 70% steadiness value, few of mine do for example.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

Not all ships can have the 70% steadiness value, few of mine do for example.

Michael

True not all can, but with a little effort most can.

[Guinness]

Wheeler is fast enough to also control the bearing, keeping this ship's guns largely masked much of the time, I think. I'd have to game it to see. Even if not, the resultant maneuvering will surely separate this ship from her charges, leaving them vulnerable in case Wheeler brought any friends, even if those friends are a lot smaller.

Or maybe I can put the whole argument better by referring to this guy:



That's Alton Brown, noted Food Network celebrity for his geek friendly cooking show Good Eats, and also notable for hosting the US version of Iron Chef. One of his constant themes is his campaign against uni-tasking cooking tools.

To me, this ship is a uni-tasker. Sure it might be useful in coastal bombardment, but then so is any ship with a gun. Take that role away and all it's good for is convoy defense. I suppose if you wanted to escort a convoy across the South Atlantic with only one ship, this might be it. But what if you instead used the assets you already have, including airships and battlecruisers to control the entire expanse of sea? Then you wouldn't need anything like this.

The whole conversation pleases me though: this is just the sort of reaction the Confederates were hoping to provoke when they laid down the Wheelers. :) It's ironic in a way, as they didn't even have the Colombians in mind in the design of these ships. Instead they were thinking of cost effective ways to neutralize the threat posed by Dutch frigates.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yes, she is a uni-tasker, I agree.  However, I will simply counter-argue that a small uni-tasker can be worthwhile if it allows your big multi-taskers to go off and do other important stuff. 

As to the convoy, smaller stuff, etc - sure, if Wheeler brings friends, things get interesting - but the convoy won't just be escorted by a 10,000 t multi-tasker, if only because she'd be lousy at ASW.

Regarding your last point - part of the point of acquiring the Congo was to push the Colombians to think and design for new situations.  Convoy defence wasn't much of an issue before - now it's something for me to think about and design for.  I like it.