Esc Panzer-shiffe

[ledeper]

Berlin-Hannover-Bergen, Esc Panzer-shiffe laid down 1920

Displacement:
   14.365 t light; 15.120 t standard; 16.628 t normal; 17.835 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   654,72 ft / 651,25 ft x 78,74 ft x 22,47 ft (normal load)
   199,56 m / 198,50 m x 24,00 m  x 6,85 m

Armament:
      9 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6.274 lbs / 2.846 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   390,42 ft / 119,00 m   10,66 ft / 3,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   390,42 ft / 119,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 77.396 shp / 57.737 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.715 tons

Complement:
   731 - 951

Cost:
   £3,641 million / $14,564 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 784 tons, 4,7 %
   Armour: 3.377 tons, 20,3 %
      - Belts: 969 tons, 5,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.048 tons, 6,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.250 tons, 7,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 111 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2.706 tons, 16,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.048 tons, 42,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.263 tons, 13,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19.271 lbs / 8.741 Kg = 28,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 34.322 Square feet or 3.189 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 721 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,06
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[TexanCowboy]

Dang, the one case where guns are more effective than torpedoes. My Chattanooga's can pierce that.

[Sachmle]

Dang, the one case where guns are more effective than torpedoes. My Chattanooga's can pierce that.

IF, and a big one at that, they can get close enough to do so. Unlike the NS raider w/ only 4 guns, this one can hit you ACCURATELY from far away. Chattanooga would never get close, neither would your Knoxville. The Wheeler's may at least stand a chance and Enterprise would eat it for lunch and crap DDs...but she's a little bigger too.

[ledeper]

a heavier version:
Berlin-Hannover-Bergen, Esc Panzer-shiffe laid down 1920

Displacement:
   16.502 t light; 17.302 t standard; 18.924 t normal; 20.222 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   654,72 ft / 651,25 ft x 78,74 ft x 25,43 ft (normal load)
   199,56 m / 198,50 m x 24,00 m  x 7,75 m

Armament:
     9 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     4 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6.274 lbs / 2.846 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   10,66 ft / 3,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 83.635 shp / 62.392 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.920 tons

Complement:
   806 - 1.048

Cost:
   £3,890 million / $15,560 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 784 tons, 4,1 %
   Armour: 5.116 tons, 27,0 %
      - Belts: 2.068 tons, 10,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.048 tons, 5,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.880 tons, 9,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 120 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2.924 tons, 15,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.227 tons, 38,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.423 tons, 12,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 2,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.224 lbs / 10.081 Kg = 33,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 34.417 Square feet or 3.197 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 716 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,14
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

and a "tin-clad" version:

Berlin-Hannover-Bergen, Esc Panzer-shiffe laid down 1920

Displacement:
   12.128 t light; 12.834 t standard; 14.199 t normal; 15.292 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   654,72 ft / 651,25 ft x 78,74 ft x 22,97 ft (normal load)
   199,56 m / 198,50 m x 24,00 m  x 7,00 m

Armament:
     9 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     4 - 4,92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 59,59lbs / 27,03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6.274 lbs / 2.846 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -

  - Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 77.169 shp / 57.568 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.458 tons

Complement:
   649 - 845

Cost:
   £3,453 million / $13,813 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 784 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 1.147 tons, 8,1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.048 tons, 7,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 99 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2.698 tons, 19,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.048 tons, 49,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.072 tons, 14,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 3,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13.742 lbs / 6.233 Kg = 20,5 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 4,6 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,422
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,73 ft / 5,10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 32.014 Square feet or 2.974 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 764 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Kaiser Kirk]

not looking in depth, but isn't the "tin clad" version  missing at least an  armor deck ala a protected cruiser. Frankly I'd consider "tin clad" to be splinter belts at least, this is simply unprotected.

Also, 125mm AA is a bit of overkill at this time. Historically the USN did it, but that doesn't mean it was the best choice. There is little a 125mm gun can do that a 75-100mm gun can't at this time.

Also would nice if the two ships were in separate quotes, or had bolded text in between.

[Walter]

"tin-clad" version:

Block coefficient: 0,422

For a ship of that size with three triple 28cm turrets, it seems rather low...

[TexanCowboy]

That is lighter than my destroyers. There is something wrong with that ship.

[ledeper]

The "tin-clad" is merely a design study,but the "heavy" version will most likely be build in 1920 when the Ocean-class Bbs is finished

[Walter]

Even as a design study, I expect the BC to be a lot higher than that...

... unless the designers anticipated that it would be full of big holes in no time. :)