Swiss Concepts...

[Desertfox]

Fisher follies... If anything, I think I overarmored these.


Revenge class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1918

Displacement:
   17,009 t light; 17,790 t standard; 20,641 t normal; 22,921 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   710.00 ft / 710.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 27.50 ft (normal load)
   216.41 m / 216.41 m x 22.56 m  x 8.38 m

Armament:
      4 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (2x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      24 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (12x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,400 lbs / 2,903 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 123,462 shp / 92,103 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 12,200nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,131 tons

Complement:
   860 - 1,119

Cost:
   £3.782 million / $15.126 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 800 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 3,522 tons, 17.1 %
      - Belts: 1,800 tons, 8.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 637 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 971 tons, 4.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 113 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 4,454 tons, 21.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,883 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,632 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,976 lbs / 9,515 Kg = 15.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.40 ft / 6.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 35,006 Square feet or 3,252 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 698 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Desertfox]

Fooling around with the design. I can get up to 33 knots easily, by dropping to a 3in belt. These will be started but not finished as planned. They will end up as aircraft carriers.


Revenge class, New Switzerland Cruiser laid down 1918

Displacement:
   15,796 t light; 16,540 t standard; 18,768 t normal; 20,551 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   710.00 ft / 710.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 25.70 ft (normal load)
   216.41 m / 216.41 m x 21.95 m  x 7.83 m

Armament:
      4 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (2x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      24 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (12x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,400 lbs / 2,903 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   550.00 ft / 167.64 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      7.00" / 178 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 116,085 shp / 86,600 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,011 tons

Complement:
   801 - 1,042

Cost:
   £3.622 million / $14.489 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 800 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 2,894 tons, 15.4 %
      - Belts: 1,228 tons, 6.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 615 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 945 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 107 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 4,188 tons, 22.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,615 tons, 40.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,972 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,970 lbs / 8,151 Kg = 13.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.40 ft / 6.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,060 Square feet or 3,164 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 696 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Valles]

Classic New Swiss design.

Since, um, everything I value in a warship is kinda antonymic to that, there's really not much else I can say.

[Borys]

Classic New Swiss design.

Since, um, everything I value in a warship is kinda antonymic to that, there's really not much else I can say.

Yup - armour -> guns -> speed ....
Borys

[Kaiser Kirk]

are the twin centerline 4" supposed to be superimposed?
Given the fleet concepts, the only part that concerns me is the 4x14. Below the number expected to be useful for FC, too large for rapid fire at close ranges.

[Tanthalas]

are the twin centerline 4" supposed to be superimposed?
Given the fleet concepts, the only part that concerns me is the 4x14. Below the number expected to be useful for FC, too large for rapid fire at close ranges.

I tend to agree with KK, wouldnt 6X12" be more fiting for them?  enough for FC to work and they would fire a damn sight faster (actualy with 6X12" they would make decent raiders)

[mentat]

i'd make it 8 x 11" - more effective FC - and plenty big enough shell size vs. Cruisers - given the paper thin armour - it can't go up against anything with 9" or better anyway ...

- and the Secs are too small - deliberately bizarre ship

  btw - what are they for ...  would make a nice Royal Yacht for Fleet Review time  ;D

[Desertfox]

If there is anything that is fixed in this design, it's the main armament. I deliberately want a poor main armament so that there is a reason to not finish these ships as planned or rebuild them and have them end up as carriers. Also the main armament will be reused for another ship I have planned later on.

[ctwaterman]

Ah Brilliant for planning so should I start laying down my Lexington Class Battle Cruisers now with 3" armored sides and start building them very very slowly  :o :-[

[Desertfox]

Or I could just lay them down as carriers, save money and get a much more efficient design...

Somebody has to build flawed ships.

[ctwaterman]

Yes,  but a flawed Battle Cruiser with 30 Knot speed and extremely light armor is well the perfect design for remove turrets and Deck Armor and Barbetts cut a few holes in the side armor.  Move the Bridge to the side and Presto you have Lexington and Hornet and if you think those were flawed ships :)

I would say the design of your new ships is nothing short of Brilliant.  Must steal some of the NS Psycics who are viewing the future.  :D

Charles

[Desertfox]

Steal some British ones, they did it in 1915...  ;)

[Kaiser Kirk]

Or I could just lay them down as carriers, save money and get a much more efficient design...

Somebody has to build flawed ships.

I'm rolling out coal-fired cruisers with the majority of their guns in casements, and a secondary battery on top of that...doesn't that count? I mean it will work well enough, but it's hardly without flaws...

[Desertfox]

But you are in the minority, everyone else is rolling out well balanced fast battleships, and max destroyers.

[Valles]

Cross Mirage is not, by any standard of her day, 'fast'. Nor will she ever be.

Though I'll admit she's planned to get new legs periodically as the standards change.