Ersatz Thetis

[Sachmle]

Ersatz Thetis, Brandenburger Kleiner Kruezer laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8,537 t light; 8,870 t standard; 10,281 t normal; 11,410 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.75 ft / 551.94 ft x 59.06 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.23 m x 18.00 m  x 7.00 m

Armament:
     4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,201 lbs / 545 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   424.05 ft / 129.25 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   0.98" / 25 mm   127.85 ft / 38.97 m   10.01 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:         -      0.98" / 25 mm            -
   4th:         -      0.98" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 88,500 shp / 66,021 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 14,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,540 tons

Complement:
   509 - 663

Cost:
   £1.783 million / $7.131 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 156 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 1,634 tons, 15.9 %
      - Belts: 1,117 tons, 10.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 68 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 389 tons, 3.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 3,297 tons, 32.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,250 tons, 31.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,744 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,709 lbs / 3,950 Kg = 84.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.481
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m (21.33 ft / 6.50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.67 ft / 6.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,344 Square feet or 1,983 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 443 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100t 1912 Fire Control
25t 1905 Sehendes Auge
25t Long Range Markoni
24t 12 2t 1913 50cm torpedoes
26t Reserve Weight

[mentat]

Interesting - but I have a few queries:

  Hoists not advisable for 150mm?

You only have single mounts ? - twin turrets - maybe 6x2 - would give scope to protect the main armament much better than in current design - and possibly save space too?

Range is very long - they intended mostly for overseas operations?

[Valles]

It's very interesting to look at this ship in the terms that, in character at least, I suspect her designers probably would have - as an answer and counter to my own 1916 Escort Cruiser class. Most notably she's a lot faster, as well as being tougher in the bargain. Her overall firepower should be about the same and her armor's a little heavier, but the deck-bin ammunition supply and above-water torpedoes probably make the 'durability' factor a wash.

So to decide between them there's those six knots vs 3,300 tons or so. To a raider or a ship meant to participate in rapid torpedo attacks, that speed will be valuable, even priceless - but it's less valuable to a ship that can expect to be shackled to a slow battleline or convoy, which only needs enough speed to take advantage of the interior position.

It's interesting how both are shaped by the attitudes and needs of their builders - yours for the assumption of tactical control as coming from high speed, and mine by my economics and intention of tactical defense.

[Sachmle]

Interesting - but I have a few queries:

  Hoists not advisable for 150mm?

You only have single mounts ? - twin turrets - maybe 6x2 - would give scope to protect the main armament much better than in current design - and possibly save space too?

Range is very long - they intended mostly for overseas operations?

1) Could do hoists
2) No twin mounts until at least 1919
3) Range is dictated by Pacific and Indian Oceans. Only fuel stops I have in the Indian are Neue Volgeldreck and Goa. Once East of Brandenburg or NE of Neue Guinea I have nothing in that direction.

[Sachmle]

It's very interesting to look at this ship in the terms that, in character at least, I suspect her designers probably would have - as an answer and counter to my own 1916 Escort Cruiser class. Most notably she's a lot faster, as well as being tougher in the bargain. Her overall firepower should be about the same and her armor's a little heavier, but the deck-bin ammunition supply and above-water torpedoes probably make the 'durability' factor a wash.

So to decide between them there's those six knots vs 3,300 tons or so. To a raider or a ship meant to participate in rapid torpedo attacks, that speed will be valuable, even priceless - but it's less valuable to a ship that can expect to be shackled to a slow battleline or convoy, which only needs enough speed to take advantage of the interior position.

It's interesting how both are shaped by the attitudes and needs of their builders - yours for the assumption of tactical control as coming from high speed, and mine by my economics and intention of tactical defense.

Hate to burst you bubble, but she's actually a response to the new Iberian and Rohan CLs, and an escort for Ersatz Blücher. She's also nearly as fast as my GTBs which would make for one hellava nasty torpedo attack if 1-2 of these are protecting a halb-flotilla (4 GTBs) or even a whole flotilla. OUCH. Scary thought strike force: 1 Ersatz Blücher, 2 Ersatz Thetis, 8 GTB1916. All 32kts, or better in the case of the GTBs. Rapid death...

[Valles]

Alas, my pride is wounded - I am dismissed!

I shall need to plot (more) revenge.

Muah. Hah. Hah.

^_^

Anyway, yeah, I'd expected their speed to come into the offensive torpedo role - it's enough to be excessive, otherwise, I think.

[Logi]

250t 1912 Fire Control

This can't be right. After all you only have a total of 200t Misc Weight.

Comments: Gun armor is pathetic IMO, too large for my taste (per torpedo capabilities and firepower)

[Sachmle]

250t 1912 Fire Control

This can't be right. After all you only have a total of 200t Misc Weight.

250t? What are you talking about? Here, look at this neat pen while I check into that. (Puts on sunglasses 8))

*FLASH*

100t 1912 Fire Control

All seems fine here, must have been something in your eyes.  ;D ;)