Second Caliphate Speculative Design Studies

[P3D]

My "battle" cruiser would be an 'armored cruiser', 8-9x11", 29kts with 9-11" of armor - or 'light fast battleship' if you want. The Caliphate would have only a few new capital ships, so overarmoring is justified.
There won't be that many 35000t 'very fast' (29kts+) battleships around for a while. Building to counter enemy battleline, or treaty-sized fast battleships is futile effort with the limited BP they'd have. So the Caliphate capital ship I'd design against the next 'fast' category which is armored cruiser. Against them 11" guns should be adequate.

I disagree on battlecruisers. There will be battlecruisers built to counter all the fast cruisers. The problem is fast battleship speed being limited by powerplant to ~ 31kts (160,000SHP), so to get 33kts with 14" guns requires reduced armor, and I think there would be players willing to go for that edge in speed.

[Carthaginian]

My "battle" cruiser would be an 'armored cruiser', 8-9x11", 29kts with 9-11" of armor - or 'light fast battleship' if you want. The Caliphate would have only a few new capital ships, so overarmoring is justified.

Ok, so not a true 'battle cruiser' but more like the 'pocket battleships' of the Kriegsmarine- something that will kill cruisers and run from battleships. These I can see the Ottomans using, though I doubt their utility a bit in the face of simple blockade- they would wind up in the same position as their OTL German counterparts: faced with running a gauntlet of opposition to get out and do damage, but faced with crushing force if they stayed close to defend.

Personally, I'd think that the Ottomans should invest heavily in lighter, faster, attrition ships with a well-built core of extremely fast scouting cruisers... things that really could run away to fight another day. As tech progressed, I'd back this up with a good submarine fleet and some heavy aviation. The Ottomans have the unique attribute of being a crossroads and at the same time a roadblock. Whoever wanted to fight them would have to do it in their backyard, or even on their doorstep. I'd ignore the temptation to build ships to 'go get 'em' and try and concentrate on making whoever came to get me pay dearly.

[Guinness]

The OE has a history with relatively economical battlecruisers, and might just eschew true BBs for such ships in the future, but there's still room for something else I think.

There is a method to the madness here, and like most current OE ideas it's asymmetric warfare. The idea being to produce a unit that could deploy to threaten Iberian lines of communications to the Phillipines. The hopes is to produce a few ships that realistically only a battlecruisers would have enough firepower to kill in single combat, but which would be fast enough to outrun all but the largest and most expensive BCs, while still being cheap enough that two of these could be acquired for the cost of every one conventional BC. Such a ship would operate alone or in small squadrons most of the time.

Or at least thats the idea. I don't think the Ottomans can afford Mahanian strategy given their threat lineup.

[Carthaginian]

There is a method to the madness here, and like most current OE ideas it's asymmetric warfare. The idea being to produce a unit that could deploy to threaten Iberian lines of communications to the Phillipines. The hopes is to produce a few ships that realistically only a battlecruisers would have enough firepower to kill in single combat, but which would be fast enough to outrun all but the largest and most expensive BCs, while still being cheap enough that two of these could be acquired for the cost of every one conventional BC. Such a ship would operate alone or in small squadrons most of the time.

I'd just see that as being accomplished by a cheaper ship.
Look at the havoc that Emden created for the British. She was small, slower than some of her adversaries, and modestly armed. However, by deploying alone and using some rather basic camouflage on the occasions she was threatened with discovery, she was disproportionately effective. If Germany had deployed say, one more of these cruisers in the Indian Ocean and 2-3 more in the Pacific... well, the Royal Navy would have been hopelessly involved in hunting these tiny little gnats.

If the Ottomans are looking for economical asymmetric warfare, I'd think something that is clearly centered on trade/communication disruption on a shoestring budget would be more the ticket. Five smaller ships, spread over a large area, could tie up far more enemy assets.

[Desertfox]

They should look at the Swiss for inspiration. I might not be able to fight a conventional line battle, but I can cause total havoc on anyone's merchant marine. Pegasus during the 2nd Pacific War had like 5 different navies looking for her and evaded them all.

[Guinness]

For some reason, when I'm bored (like say a slow Friday at work), I end up designing and redesigning armored cruisers. At any rate, here's the latest on that line of thinking. Probably a better overall ship compared to the last one upthread:

10x210mm , Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   12,400 t light; 12,924 t standard; 14,150 t normal; 15,131 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606.95 ft / 590.55 ft x 68.90 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
   185.00 m / 180.00 m x 21.00 m  x 7.00 m

Armament:
      10 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (5x2 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,793 lbs / 1,267 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.54" / 90 mm   411.75 ft / 125.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 96,000 shp / 71,616 Kw = 31.04 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,207 tons

Complement:
   648 - 843

Cost:
   £3.483 million / $13.931 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 407 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 2,580 tons, 18.2 %
      - Belts: 999 tons, 7.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 694 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 812 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,577 tons, 25.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,452 tons, 38.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,750 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 384 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,107 lbs / 6,852 Kg = 53.5 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.18 ft / 9.20 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Mid (57 %):      26.57 ft / 8.10 m (18.70 ft / 5.70 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Stern:      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.92 ft / 7.29 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,870 Square feet or 2,589 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 585 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Firecontrol
12t: 6x21" Torps
25t: Long Range Wireless
42t: Mines
55t: Reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

To my thinking, that's too large for use in minelaying.  I'd put the miscellaneous weight towards squadron flag facilities.

[Sachmle]

I think with the 5x2x21cm main battery the 8x120 secondary is unnecessary. If you drop it can you get the belt to 10cm?

[Guinness]

Sans 120mm, I get a pretty good ship. It could even be a little faster, I suspect, if I pushed displacement up a little more, but I haven't tried yet. Rocky: This is likely the biggest ship the Ottomans/Caliphate would build for quite a while (if it ever got built), so flagship facilities make sense too.

10x210mm No Secondaries, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   12,200 t light; 12,681 t standard; 13,895 t normal; 14,866 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606.95 ft / 590.55 ft x 68.24 ft x 22.56 ft (normal load)
   185.00 m / 180.00 m x 20.80 m  x 6.88 m

Armament:
      10 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (5x2 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.80lbs / 4.90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,415 lbs / 1,095 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   406.82 ft / 124.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 95,000 shp / 70,870 Kw = 31.04 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,185 tons

Complement:
   639 - 831

Cost:
   £3.336 million / $13.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 358 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 2,631 tons, 18.9 %
      - Belts: 1,099 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 651 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 808 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,540 tons, 25.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,263 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,694 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 408 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,195 lbs / 6,892 Kg = 53.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.18 ft / 9.20 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Mid (54 %):      26.57 ft / 8.10 m (18.70 ft / 5.70 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Stern:      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.67 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,733 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 570 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Firecontrol
12t: 6x21" Torps
25t: Long Range Wireless
66t: Other stuff
55t: Reserve

[Guinness]

And while I'm at it, something at the other end of the spectrum. This is very reminiscent of the CSA's Sloops, which I found eminently useful. For the OE/Caliphate, they could be useful little patrol ships, and occasionally commerce raiders.

The cost of mostly coal firing (for flexibility) and reciprocating plant (for cost and ease of construction) is large size. I'd rather they not be over 700 tons as these are. Diesels could be the answer. Still I wonder if a ship like this couldn't be built to merchant standards?

Gunboat 1x75mm, Ottoman Empire Gunboat laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   730 t light; 752 t standard; 973 t normal; 1,149 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   236.22 ft / 226.38 ft x 28.22 ft x 9.35 ft (normal load)
   72.00 m / 69.00 m x 8.60 m  x 2.85 m

Armament:
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.80lbs / 4.90kg shells, 1888 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      3 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline amidships
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17 lbs / 8 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 220
   2 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

   - Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,000 ihp / 3,730 Kw = 20.25 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 397 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   86 - 113

Cost:
   £0.170 million / $0.679 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 316 tons, 32.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 354 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 243 tons, 24.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 56 tons, 5.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,196 lbs / 542 Kg = 92.9 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.90 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (70 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.77 ft / 4.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,542 Square feet or 422 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 38 lbs/sq ft or 185 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 5.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight:
4t: 2 Torpedoes (in fixed athwartship above water tubes)
25t: Long Range Wireless
30t: Other stuff , which might include extra stores and provisions, extra coal, mines, or minesweeping gear

[P3D]

I won't bother with merchant standard. By the rules it just limits the flexibility of the ship (much limited use as minelayer or subchaser). ~2000SHP diesels should be available commercially by now, use 1 or 2 engines, that would cut down the weight significantly. And the ship is large enough to have two "main guns".

The boats are too large for their capability. I suggest to take a look at some Orange gunboats, 15kts  but only 200-250t.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1394.0

[Guinness]

My gut is 15 knots isn't fast enough for all the things I'd use them for. If I opted for Diesels, I'd almost certainly scrap any plan to build them to merchant standards. I'm thinking diesel with 6000nm range, 500t, 20ish knots, 2x75mm and some misc equipment ought to be doable.

[Guinness]

Here's something:

Gunboat 2x75mm Diesel, Ottoman Empire Gunboat laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   450 t light; 466 t standard; 578 t normal; 668 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   200.14 ft / 190.29 ft x 23.79 ft x 7.84 ft (normal load)
   61.00 m / 58.00 m x 7.25 m  x 2.39 m

Armament:
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.80lbs / 4.90kg shells, 1888 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      3 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on centreline amidships
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 28 lbs / 13 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   2 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,000 shp / 2,984 Kw = 20.31 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 202 tons

Complement:
   58 - 76

Cost:
   £0.094 million / $0.377 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 1.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 149 tons, 25.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 234 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 128 tons, 22.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 56 tons, 9.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     916 lbs / 416 Kg = 71.2 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.82

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 13.79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.90 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (58 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.53 ft / 2.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.80 ft / 3.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,219 Square feet or 299 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 147 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.80
      - Longitudinal: 7.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weight:
4t: 2 Torpedoes (in fixed athwartship above water tubes)
25t: Long Range Wireless
30t: Other stuff , which might include extra stores and provisions, extra coal, mines, or minesweeping gear

I'm messing around with one with substantial amounts of anti-mg armor too, but it hardly seems worth it.

[damocles]

Sans 120mm, I get a pretty good ship. It could even be a little faster, I suspect, if I pushed displacement up a little more, but I haven't tried yet. Rocky: This is likely the biggest ship the Ottomans/Caliphate would build for quite a while (if it ever got built), so flagship facilities make sense too.

10x210mm No Secondaries, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   12,200 t light; 12,681 t standard; 13,895 t normal; 14,866 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   606.95 ft / 590.55 ft x 68.24 ft x 22.56 ft (normal load)
   185.00 m / 180.00 m x 20.80 m  x 6.88 m

Armament:
      10 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (5x2 guns), 238.10lbs / 108.00kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.80lbs / 4.90kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,415 lbs / 1,095 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   406.82 ft / 124.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      3.94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 95,000 shp / 70,870 Kw = 31.04 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,185 tons

Complement:
   639 - 831

Cost:
   £3.336 million / $13.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 358 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 2,631 tons, 18.9 %
      - Belts: 1,099 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 651 tons, 4.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 808 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 74 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,540 tons, 25.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,263 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,694 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 408 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,195 lbs / 6,892 Kg = 53.8 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.18 ft / 9.20 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Mid (54 %):      26.57 ft / 8.10 m (18.70 ft / 5.70 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Stern:      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.67 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,733 Square feet or 2,576 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 570 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Firecontrol
12t: 6x21" Torps
25t: Long Range Wireless
66t: Other stuff
55t: Reserve

Nice design. Couple of questions, you are not afraid of torpedo boats after what has happened in the Rift? Looking at Ottoman waters as laid out, I would be terrified of enemy torpedo boats. I wonder if a little range or a 210 mount could be traded for anti-destroyer guns.

I also wonder if a smaller calibre main gun, with a greater rate of fire, might be of more use against the threat set you could expect in your confined waters?          

[Guinness]

See http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4330.msg62145#msg62145. 200 tons and 10mm off the main belt gets me 8x120mm guns too.

I buy the argument that coordinating the fire of the two batteries might be problematic. I could go smaller with say 8x210mm, but too much smaller and 31 knots gets hard.

Sure, a (say) 8 or 10x150mm gunned ship could be very useful too, especially nearer to home waters. These, I imagine, might be based outside the Med, and have a mission that takes them a bit further afield though.

The OE went to the trouble to design these 21cm guns, which will find their way into coast defense batteries soon. I'm mostly looking to see what else I could do with them.