Second Caliphate Speculative Design Studies

[Tanthalas]

Using a quad? so im assuming Quad Tripple tripple

[maddox]

Otherwise , King George V class layout.  Twin superfiring over quad forward and quad aft.

[Guinness]

Actually, it's supposed to be 5 twins, but I screwed up. The screw up did prove interesting though.

It could be triple at A, quad at X, and triple at Y I suppose. Or I could move the quad to a Q position.

I'm trying to make it work with twins now though...

[Guinness]

I haven't made 10x305mm on 25 knots in a type 2 dock work yet, but 8x305mm works ok:

2nd Caliphate Battleship (8x305mm), 2nd Caliphate  Battleship laid down 1922 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   20,000 t light; 20,998 t standard; 22,000 t normal; 22,801 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.76 ft / 551.18 ft x 90.22 ft x 28.15 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 27.50 m  x 8.58 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 890.67lbs / 404.00kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (6x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,366 lbs / 3,795 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 117

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.2" / 260 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   223.10 ft / 68.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   32.81 ft / 10.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      10.2" / 260 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:         -      0.98" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11.42" / 290 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 58,000 shp / 43,268 Kw = 25.08 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,804 tons

Complement:
   903 - 1,174

Cost:
   £5.073 million / $20.290 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,021 tons, 4.6 %
   Armour: 7,889 tons, 35.9 %
      - Belts: 3,744 tons, 17.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 627 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 1,808 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,517 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 193 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,161 tons, 9.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,458 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,000 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 472 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,308 lbs / 15,108 Kg = 38.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.90 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.57 ft / 8.10 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Mid (72 %):      23.95 ft / 7.30 m (16.08 ft / 4.90 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.37 ft / 6.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,706 Square feet or 3,224 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 818 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weight:
250t: Fire Control
50t: Crew Comfort
100t: Flag Facilities
72t: Reserve

[Guinness]

Spurred on by reading about "cruisers" that carried torpedo boats late in the 19th century, here's an updated version of that idea. The Ottomans would need to advance their MTB tech to make it worthwhile probably.

The idea is this would act as the mothership for the MTBs, put them in the water, let them do their thing, and back them up with gunpower. Torpedoes shipped are all intended for the MTBs. They'd probably actually be 18", but I'm erring on the big side at the moment. And yes, it's unarmored...

Silly Idea, Ottoman Empire MTB Suppot Cruiser laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   5,500 t light; 5,721 t standard; 6,232 t normal; 6,641 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   469.17 ft / 459.32 ft x 50.85 ft x 17.96 ft (normal load)
   143.00 m / 140.00 m x 15.50 m  x 5.47 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,034 lbs / 469 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 168
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes, 16 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

   - Conning tower: 2.36" / 60 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 55,474 shp / 41,384 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 920 tons

Complement:
   349 - 455

Cost:
   £1.396 million / $5.582 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 64 tons, 1.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 46 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,067 tons, 33.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,461 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 732 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 779 tons, 12.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,048 lbs / 929 Kg = 19.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.25 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.89 ft / 8.50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   26.25 ft / 8.00 m (18.37 ft / 5.60 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (24 %):   26.25 ft / 8.00 m (18.37 ft / 5.60 m before break)
      - Stern:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.69 ft / 6.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,851 Square feet or 1,473 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 399 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 2.93
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc weight:
480t: 4x40t Motor Torpedo Boats, spare parts, cranes, etc.
245t: Fuel for MTBs
24t: 12x21" Torpedoes (reloads for MTBs)
30t: Reserves)
30t: Reserve

[Sachmle]

Not a bad idea, I think P3D had a similar idea for Orange...may have even built it, I can't remember.

[Guinness]

Alluded to in another thread: a small unarmored cruiser meant specifically to lead flotillas of (very) small torpedo boats. The idea here is it provides command and control for a flotilla of 16 - 20 boats, plus some gunpower backup, and possibly even limited tender functions with weight allocated from the reserve, and in peacetime by landing the mine load. These very limited functions might include medical and dental, hot meals, etc.

In this operational concept, I see a flotilla as consisting of:

1 Leader of some sort (be it a small cruiser, or maybe a big destroyer)
1 Tender of some sort (slow and merchant built, it would stay in protected waters while the unit is operating)
16 - 20 200t or under TBs or MTBs

Two designs, one of 3000t, one of 2500t:

Ottoman TB Leader Unarmored, Ottoman Empire Torpedo Boat Leader laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   3,000 t light; 3,130 t standard; 3,526 t normal; 3,843 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.69 ft / 383.86 ft x 41.99 ft x 15.31 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 117.00 m x 12.80 m  x 4.67 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 426 lbs / 193 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   6 - 24.9" / 633 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,400 shp / 27,154 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 713 tons

Complement:
   228 - 297

Cost:
   £0.803 million / $3.211 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 45 tons, 1.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 30 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 15 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,356 tons, 38.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,352 tons, 38.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 526 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 194 tons, 5.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,161 lbs / 980 Kg = 41.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Mid (26 %):      22.31 ft / 6.80 m (14.44 ft / 4.40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Stern:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.48 ft / 5.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 142.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,740 Square feet or 998 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 338 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
100t: Fire control
12t: Torpedoes
40t: Mines
43t: Reserve

Ottoman TB Leader Smaller, Ottoman Empire Torpedo Boat Leader laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,604 t standard; 2,960 t normal; 3,245 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   367.28 ft / 357.61 ft x 37.07 ft x 15.32 ft (normal load)
   111.95 m / 109.00 m x 11.30 m  x 4.67 m

Armament:
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 321 lbs / 145 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 24.9" / 633 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.18" / 30 mm

   - Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,300 shp / 24,096 Kw = 28.71 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 641 tons

Complement:
   199 - 260

Cost:
   £0.685 million / $2.738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 40 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 39 tons, 1.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,203 tons, 40.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,079 tons, 36.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 460 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 138 tons, 4.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,632 lbs / 740 Kg = 31.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.65 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.85 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (31 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.56 ft / 4.74 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 147.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,915 Square feet or 828 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 62 lbs/sq ft or 303 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.74
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
100t: Fire control
8t: Torpedoes
10t: Mines
20t: Reserve

Footnote: it should be noted that the 40mm and 0.5" machine guns are notional and used for design drafting purposes only. If necessary, the 40mm will have to be developed. Similarly the twin 120mm mount will either have to be developed, or the design procured from the Dutch.

[miketr]

I don't much care for the unarmored small CL design.  The primary edge of the CL is its able to be armored.  I think that for another 500 tons you can get some armor on the hull even if its own a 50mm belt.

This aside the idea of the swarm fleet has a great deal of merit to it for the Ottomans.

Michael

[Guinness]

Yeah, it's still an idea I'm distilling (the leader that is). On one hand, it's unarmored, but on the other hand it's still large and fast. I expect that even without armor it could absorb a good deal of punishment. If I subtract half a knot of speed it could ship 5 150mm guns too...

The other param here is I'm trying to fit it in a type 1 dock. If I try to scale up for armor, but keep it in a type 1, the results are not overly satisfactory. Certainly if I allowed her to grow in length past 120m the results would be better. I could probably have a thicker belt and/or deck by accepting a shorter belt as well, but at almost 29 knots, I expect the bottom of a 4 meter or smaller belt would likely be exposed.

Ottoman TB Leader Armored, Ottoman Empire Torpedo Boat Leader laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,152 t standard; 4,617 t normal; 4,990 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 383.86 ft x 49.21 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 117.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 404 lbs / 183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 265
   6 - 24.9" / 633 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   318.24 ft / 97.00 m   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.18" / 30 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.59" / 15 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 43,000 shp / 32,078 Kw = 28.71 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 837 tons

Complement:
   279 - 364

Cost:
   £0.967 million / $3.867 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 1.2 %
   Armour: 509 tons, 11.0 %
      - Belts: 321 tons, 7.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 30 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 140 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,602 tons, 34.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,655 tons, 35.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 618 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,766 lbs / 1,708 Kg = 71.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.65 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Mid (37 %):      23.62 ft / 7.20 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.64 ft / 5.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,838 Square feet or 1,193 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 365 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.76
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
100t: Fire control
12t: Torpedoes
30t: Mines
28t: Reserve

[Guinness]

An armored 5x150mm ship. Sort of 3/4 of a real light cruiser. Also it deserves noting that the Ottomans are taking lessons learned from the 4th Pacific War via the lens of the Dutch. In my mind at least the Dutch may be concluding that they need light cruiser like ships with sufficient firepower to sink enemy torpedo craft far enough away from their major units that they can't put torpedoes in them. In Dutch eyes, such a ship might look much like these unarmored ships (though maybe a little bigger and faster).

Ottoman TB Leader Armored, Ottoman Empire Torpedo Boat Leader laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4,000 t light; 4,152 t standard; 4,617 t normal; 4,990 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 383.86 ft x 49.21 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 117.00 m x 15.00 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 504 lbs / 228 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 212
   6 - 24.9" / 633 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   318.24 ft / 97.00 m   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         1.18" / 30 mm

   - Armour deck: 0.59" / 15 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 42,700 shp / 31,854 Kw = 28.66 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 837 tons

Complement:
   279 - 364

Cost:
   £0.986 million / $3.945 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 65 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 508 tons, 11.0 %
      - Belts: 321 tons, 7.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 28 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 140 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,591 tons, 34.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,657 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 617 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 3.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,758 lbs / 1,704 Kg = 36.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.522
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.65 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Mid (37 %):      23.62 ft / 7.20 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.69 ft / 5.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,838 Square feet or 1,193 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 364 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.80
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight:
100t: Fire control
12t: Torpedoes
30t: Mines
28t: Reserve

[miketr]

I don't know Guinness.  You have a ship now as large or larger than the Hamadiye Class and Imbros Class Cruisers. Its 1.5 knots faster but it has waaay less armor 40mm belt vs a 75mm belt.  Its a very heavy price to pay for another knot and a half of speed.  If you want to go this big I think going with a weaker main gun to get the better speed would be the way to go.

Michael

[Guinness]

You see now why I'm partial to the 2500t or 3000t unarmored ships (if anything).

[miketr]

I would think a 1,500 ton DD would be able to meet the role just fine.  You should be able to achieve a design speed of 32 knots on 1,500 tons, 1916 Engines and armed with 105's or 120's.  I know I have such a design for Iberia.

[Guinness]

Quite possibly. My main concern with using a 1500t DD is that it may not be able to fulfill the command and control and non-combat needs a bigger real cruiser might be able to fulfill. I'll kick the idea around. It probably would end up not even having torpedoes...

[miketr]

I don't think you do support, C3 and combat power on 1,500 tons.  I do think you can get C3 and Combat power on 1,500 tons.  Just split the functions with building a tender and a leader.  Guinness, you were willing to spend 2.5 BP on a single ship.   1.5 BP into a DD(L) and 1.0 BP into a civilian standard tender.  I am very sure you will be much happier with that solution or convert one of your old protected cruisers into tenders, you have 7 on the books, then build just the leaders.

Michael