The Middle Kingdom's Next capital unit pagent.

Started by snip, January 12, 2011, 09:20:26 PM

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snip

Ok, while we have all been waiting to move on with things, I have been scheming a bit about the future. Now once the war ends, I will need some time to rebuild my economy and army to pre-war levels. Once that repair is done, then attention will shift to the Dragon Navy. Siting the performance in the war and losses, this will be used as a opportunity to rebuild the navy from basically the ground up. With that out of the way, the Middle Kingdom will be getting capital ships. As to what form they take, well I have been debating. The results of my deliberations are below. Comments on the designs are wanted, both as to there projected performance and how well you think they would fit my needs.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

First up is a design based heavily off of Jef's fantastic Pocket Battleship a few threads down. I started with that because it was relatively small while still having some hitting power.
Quote1923 Battleship Proposal 1, Middle Kingdom Pocket Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   10,500 t light; 11,038 t standard; 11,706 t normal; 12,240 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   403.53 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.15 ft (normal load)
   123.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m  x 6.75 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,452 lbs / 2,020 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   11.65 ft / 3.55 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   255.91 ft / 78.00 m   21.26 ft / 6.48 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.59" / 15 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 3 shafts, 24,000 shp / 17,904 Kw = 21.17 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,202 tons

Complement:
   562 - 731

Cost:
   £2.763 million / $11.051 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 559 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 4,510 tons, 38.5 %
      - Belts: 1,492 tons, 12.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 396 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 853 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,646 tons, 14.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 122 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 802 tons, 6.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,319 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,206 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,564 lbs / 8,421 Kg = 27.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.597
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.36 ft / 0.11 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Stern:      15.58 ft / 4.75 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.67 ft / 4.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,605 Square feet or 2,100 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.44
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

MB inclined at 10 degrees (Actual height 3.5m)
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

Next is a slightly heaver variant on Proposal 1, with a more conventional layout.
Quote1923 Battleship Proposal 2, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   12,000 t light; 12,600 t standard; 13,422 t normal; 14,079 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   406.83 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 24.61 ft (normal load)
   124.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m  x 7.50 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 14.33lbs / 6.50kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,781 lbs / 2,169 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   275.59 ft / 84.00 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.94" / 100 mm   275.59 ft / 84.00 m   23.79 ft / 7.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm   0.20" / 5 mm      0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 21.13 kts
   Range 4,975nm at 14.47 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,479 tons

Complement:
   623 - 810

Cost:
   £3.033 million / $12.133 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 596 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 5,666 tons, 42.2 %
      - Belts: 1,787 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 955 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armament: 1,115 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,676 tons, 12.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 134 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 869 tons, 6.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,369 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,422 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,223 lbs / 9,626 Kg = 31.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.616
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.18 ft / 0.97 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.45 ft / 5.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,010 Square feet or 2,138 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 668 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.42
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

MB inclined at 10 degrees (actual height 4m)
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

Proposal 3 is the biggest of the bunch, but also the fastest. Layout is the same as Proposal 2 with the hull based on the Von Der Tann
Quote1923 Battleship Proposal 3, Middle Kingdom Fast Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,669 t standard; 16,984 t normal; 18,036 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   580.71 ft / 564.30 ft x 85.30 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
   177.00 m / 172.00 m x 26.00 m  x 7.00 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (6 mounts), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (12 mounts), 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,752 lbs / 2,156 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   310.37 ft / 94.60 m   11.65 ft / 3.55 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.15" / 80 mm   310.37 ft / 94.60 m   20.90 ft / 6.37 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 6,440nm at 15.32 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,366 tons

Complement:
   743 - 967

Cost:
   £3.638 million / $14.553 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 596 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 6,161 tons, 36.3 %
      - Belts: 1,798 tons, 10.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 756 tons, 4.5 %
      - Armament: 1,048 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,419 tons, 14.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,604 tons, 9.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,139 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,984 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,995 lbs / 12,698 Kg = 41.8 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 5.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.46 ft / 1.97 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.22 ft / 5.25 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.49 ft / 5.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,210 Square feet or 3,085 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 138 lbs/sq ft or 673 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

MB inclined at 10 degrees (actual height 3.5m)
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

And last is the smallest of the bunch, loosely based off Svarge
Quote1923 Battleship Proposal 4, Middle Kingdom Costal Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   8,500 t light; 8,930 t standard; 9,456 t normal; 9,877 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.69 ft / 383.86 ft x 75.46 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 117.00 m x 23.00 m  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 665.80lbs / 302.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,421 lbs / 1,552 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   211.12 ft / 64.35 m   11.65 ft / 3.55 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 18,000 shp / 13,428 Kw = 20.20 kts
   Range 3,315nm at 15.19 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 947 tons

Complement:
   479 - 623

Cost:
   £2.159 million / $8.635 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 429 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 3,607 tons, 38.1 %
      - Belts: 1,283 tons, 13.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 627 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,591 tons, 16.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 106 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 602 tons, 6.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,362 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 956 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 5.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,350 lbs / 6,963 Kg = 22.9 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.633
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.09 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.31 ft / 0.40 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Stern:      13.94 ft / 4.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.03 ft / 4.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,849 Square feet or 2,030 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.85
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

MB inclined at 10 degrees (actual height 3.5m)
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Jefgte

#5
Test SS with your exellent:

2T2x355.6mm (14") L45 BL Superheavy 30%


Jef  ;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

snip

those are RRC guns. I could develop a 350mm L45 in addition to the 280mm L50 that these have equipped. My thoughts were that 280mm guns are not to heavy so as to make the ships smaller and better protected and they have some mesuer of penetration power to be of use against ACs and below, as well as there comparatively high RoF (2-3 rpm)
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Jefgte

To engage AC, 280 are enough.
To engage BB, 280 are short & 350 ... correct

Jef  ;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

snip

the idea behind all of these ships is that they would need a true battleship or very large AC to kill. now these ships cannot stand up to those, but they can force them to come and play in a litoral environment, with lots of DDs subs and torps. no capital ship likes those  ;D
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Jefgte

Other ideas behind these half BBs is to use them in the BBs battleline...
to have a supernumerary of big guns  ;D
Add 4, 8, 12, 16x356mm guns in the battleline is always interresting for an Admiral  ;D

In the BBs battleline, they are not afraid to "Repulse" ACs or medium BCs or BBs.

The strategical use is more flexible.
with 80 BPs, you could have:
2x40000t BBs
3x26600t
4x20000t
or
8x10000t PBBs  - 4 divisions with 32x356 guns.

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But, they are really short to engage big BBs with 16" or 18" guns


Jef
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

snip

well here is the thing, a heavy BBcentic navy is not feasible for me to do with only my domestic industry (at pre-war conditions). I do need some capital units, but trying to build "True" battleships is not really a good idea at this time. some groundwork needs to be done in the rest of the ship types to ensure balance. In the meantime, coastal units or older BBs bought from other powers can fill in the gaps until what the Middle Kingdom really needs in a battleship is figured out.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Guinness

Time for me to toss in my $0.02, strategically speaking:

Assuming the RRC and MK continue to hold about the same ground they held going into the present war, the MK is somewhat hamstrung with respect to access to the sea. The first point of emphasis, I think, should likely be maintaining control of the Yellow Sea and maintaining the capability to get what offensive units you have out of it.

So to me, that means the first and foremost requirement is ships and craft capable of laying mines to deny access of the Yellow Sea to others.

Beyond that, I believe large numbers of small coastal submarines would be of great use, both close to home, and down along the RRC's coast.

Your most likely enemy, the RRC, has little overseas commerce to speak of to interdict, so longer-ranged Cruisers are of less value against them. Japan should also be considered a likely foe, and Cruisers could be of use against the Japanese, but it would be best if the MK had some sort of overseas presence to preposition such ships, as getting them out after war is declared will be difficult.

Beyond that, the MK has a tradition of small torpedo craft. Such ships are still useful, I think, for sweeps down the coast (assuming the MK maintains control of the Yellow Sea to the extent that such sweeps can escape). Sweeps of torpedo craft and destroyers, backed by some relatively small number of light cruisers, and in concert with tactically independent submarines and selective mining operations could all by themselves do a great deal to disrupt arms and supply imports to the RRC and tie up a great amount of the RRC's resources. I know this has been going on in the current war.

Finally larger ships: I don't think the MK should emphasize long-legged commerce raiders. Slow, tough battleships with range sufficient for operations in the Yellow Sea on the other hand could be of much more utility. This probably means ships with the largest guns obtainable on the smallest hulls that can hold them with adequate to good protection. Speed would be of relatively little importance. These would be purely defensive ships, and should be partnered with large-caliber coast defense installations wherever practical.

At least, that's how I see it.

snip

hmmmm...

well at this point, the largest gun in my arsenal (bore size) is a 330mm L40. now, assuming this falls under the 14" category of the gun tree, I could have a L50 version ready to go with these ships. Might have to fiddle with that... (A clone of the USS Oregon looks good about now... ;D)

As to priorities of construction (attempting to not give away to much strategy):
A dedicated mine layer is on the list, probably just a rehash of a similar ship I had in the works for Ireland.

Coastal subs are there as well, probably 500t ships with smaller ones mixed in as other construction leaves gaps open in BP used.

Destroyers are a big part, have a few designs kicking around that are quick, very quick, and carry lots of torps. Some smaller ones for subhunting and the like.

Cruisers are needed. The NS have to be regarded as a potential enemy, and they do have commerce to raid. Also, any ships that can be tied down by a raider cant be used elsewhere. However, there would not be to many of these ships as there use is situational

Capital units, aside from commerce raiders well you hit the nail on the head basically. especially if by though you mean armored to withstand ~350mm guns (yes Valles, there is a new armor junky in town  ;D)

QuoteAssuming the RRC and MK continue to hold about the same ground they held going into the present war
Somehow, I don't see this being the case.

Quotethe MK is somewhat hamstrung with respect to access to the sea
I like small coastlines, makes it easy to concentrate forces. Gulfs make it even better.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon