Refurbishing the Preussen class??

[ledeper]

Refurbishing the Preussen class??
All 4 is due for a 10 year refitt,but why not take the full step?

Preussen, Baltic Confedration  Dreadnougth laid down 1908

Displacement:
   24.357 t light; 25.784 t standard; 29.287 t normal; 32.088 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   569,86 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,07 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   173,69 m / 170,00 m x 30,50 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.352 lbs / 5.603 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   2,00" / 51 mm   195,19 ft / 59,49 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   28,05 ft / 8,55 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm   4,00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.761 shp / 34.884 Kw = 22,50 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.304 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.119 - 1.455

Cost:
   £2,513 million / $10,053 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.544 tons, 5,3 %
   Armour: 10.271 tons, 35,1 %
      - Belts: 3.661 tons, 12,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 753 tons, 2,6 %
      - Armament: 2.488 tons, 8,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 3.083 tons, 10,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 287 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.598 tons, 8,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.644 tons, 32,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.930 tons, 16,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37.356 lbs / 16.944 Kg = 27,2 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,622
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,98 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,29 ft / 5,27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 41.664 Square feet or 3.871 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 853 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,52
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Preussen , Esc Bb laid down 1908 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   23.787 t light; 25.079 t standard; 26.897 t normal; 28.352 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557,71 ft / 553,15 ft x 100,07 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   169,99 m / 168,60 m x 30,50 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12.113 lbs / 5.494 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   414,86 ft / 126,45 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   414,86 ft / 126,45 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   414,86 ft / 126,45 m   27,95 ft / 8,52 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm   4,00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 54.133 shp / 40.383 Kw = 23,75 kts
   Range 7.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.274 tons

Complement:
   1.049 - 1.365

Cost:
   £2,387 million / $9,547 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.514 tons, 5,6 %
   Armour: 10.284 tons, 38,2 %
      - Belts: 3.831 tons, 14,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 858 tons, 3,2 %
      - Armament: 2.394 tons, 8,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.929 tons, 10,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 271 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.017 tons, 7,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.472 tons, 35,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.111 tons, 11,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34.562 lbs / 15.677 Kg = 25,2 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 6,1 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 17,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,576
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,53 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,52 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,89 ft / 7,89 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (70 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,85 ft / 5,13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 39.583 Square feet or 3.677 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 879 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,62
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Changes:
New Engines  gives speed increase of 1 1/4 knots + 500 miles increased range,exchanging older 6" with new 150 Q.F reduce number 100mm Q.F to 10 ,remove end armor

[Kaiser Kirk]

Given the age and gun size, a rebuild would likely result in viable ships for an acceptable period, so why not.

I have some quibbles on the hull parameters, you are apparently fitting a new bow, but why would the freeboard drop by 0.02m?  Also, I don't think BC is something that is changeable. 

I note you've also added 16m onto your belt lengths. Considering that to make that worthwhile would mean you are moving the armored bulkheads that cap the ends, it seems a big step. I'd be more interested in laminating more armor onto the main gun barbettes.

For speed, the question to me is...what does it buy you? Your old ships are slower, your new ships are faster. The alteration mainly means you have a chance to choose range vs. a 21kt ship instead of a 20knt.  That may, or may not, be worthwhile compared to other things.

I do question the reduction in ammunition. With ranges generally increasing, it's not unreasonable to forecast more low probability shots.

[ledeper]

Ups Wrong entry file,this is the correct one,

Preussen, Esc Bb laid down 1908

Displacement:
   24.121 t light; 25.543 t standard; 29.028 t normal; 31.816 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552,82 ft / 552,82 ft x 100,07 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   168,50 m / 168,50 m x 30,50 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12.352 lbs / 5.603 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   2,00" / 51 mm   193,47 ft / 58,97 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   27,10 ft / 8,26 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm   4,00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.701 shp / 34.839 Kw = 22,50 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.273 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1.111 - 1.445

Cost:
   £2,504 million / $10,018 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.544 tons, 5,3 %
   Armour: 10.079 tons, 34,7 %
      - Belts: 3.628 tons, 12,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 721 tons, 2,5 %
      - Armament: 2.390 tons, 8,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3.056 tons, 10,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 285 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 2.595 tons, 8,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.604 tons, 33,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.907 tons, 16,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36.696 lbs / 16.645 Kg = 26,7 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 6,6 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,622
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,85 ft / 7,88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,22 ft / 5,25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 41.296 Square feet or 3.837 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 857 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,55
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Preussen Rebuild, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   22.869 t light; 24.219 t standard; 26.368 t normal; 28.087 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552,82 ft / 552,82 ft x 100,07 ft x 29,53 ft (normal load)
   168,50 m / 168,50 m x 30,50 m  x 9,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12.113 lbs / 5.494 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   6,00" / 152 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   359,33 ft / 109,52 m   27,10 ft / 8,26 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm   4,00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 14,00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 46.878 shp / 34.971 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 8.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.868 tons

Complement:
   1.033 - 1.344

Cost:
   £2,317 million / $9,267 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.514 tons, 5,7 %
   Armour: 9.721 tons, 36,9 %
      - Belts: 3.442 tons, 13,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 721 tons, 2,7 %
      - Armament: 2.394 tons, 9,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.897 tons, 11,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 267 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 1.747 tons, 6,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.387 tons, 35,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.499 tons, 13,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34.642 lbs / 15.713 Kg = 25,2 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 6,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,85 ft / 7,88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Stern:      16,47 ft / 5,02 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,22 ft / 5,25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 39.153 Square feet or 3.637 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 179 lbs/sq ft or 876 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,67
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

New Engines ,shift grom coal to Oil ,2000 miles increased range,exchanging older 6" with new 150 Q.F reduce number 100mm Q.F to 10 ,remove end armor