Rohan ships 1916, 1917, & Beyond

[Ithekro]

Depends on her purpose.  The original Belted Cruisers has about the same amount of armor, but after combat related problems (the destruction of said vessel to point blank range cruiser fire), it was decided to increase the belt armor to 5 inches rather than 3 inches (which wouldn't have saved the original vessel as she was used in a line action she shouldn't have been in, and at a ridiculously close range to boot.).  However that was for the 7.5 inch armed cruisers.  This seems to be a lighter version of that concept, with the long range that goes with it for ocean patrols, fleet scouting, or anti-piracy sort of things.

[Tanthalas]

The Role I had envisiond for them was Anti TB/DD Escort, Patrol, and Fleet Scout.  Traditionaly (atleast from what I know/can gather) Rohan has never had the fastest ships in the race, or in alot of cases even the best armored.  What they have always had however was the most guns, and considering these layed down in 1917 and for 6K tons I got a VERY well armed, Reasonably fast (for Rohan), Long range Cruiser.  I term these ships as Light Cruisers, but realy for Rohan they will be called Belted Cruisers.  CLX was just a working name so I could remember which ship I was working on (there are actualy CLX Flight 1 - Flight 8 on my PC atm)

[Tanthalas]

More for fun than anything, its a Huh ship based of the Russian 1950s Proposed BCs

CBX, Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   34,000 t light; 35,435 t standard; 40,223 t normal; 44,054 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   898.00 ft / 892.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   273.71 m / 271.88 m x 32.00 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 926.00lbs / 420.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9,245 lbs / 4,194 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   535.00 ft / 163.07 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   357.00 ft / 108.81 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   535.00 ft / 163.07 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   535.00 ft / 163.07 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 175,069 shp / 130,602 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,619 tons

Complement:
   1,419 - 1,846

Cost:
   £6.456 million / $25.825 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,086 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 11,054 tons, 27.5 %
      - Belts: 4,668 tons, 11.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 891 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,775 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,467 tons, 8.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 253 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 6,121 tons, 15.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,239 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,223 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60,197 lbs / 27,305 Kg = 69.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.501
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      34.00 ft / 10.36 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   32.00 ft / 9.75 m (22.00 ft / 6.71 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.36 ft / 7.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 62,462 Square feet or 5,803 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 840 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[TexanCowboy]

Waste of tonnage. Why build that when the Wheelers could do the same job cheaper.

[Tanthalas]

Waste of tonnage. Why build that when the Wheelers could do the same job cheaper.

Who said anything about building it, and IMHO it would eat whealers 2 at a time.but I do agree on the it would be a waste of Tonage part, if im spending anywhere colse to 35K im just going to build another Asfaloth (or Eorl)

[TexanCowboy]

It may eat Wheeler's two at a time, but with that speed, it would be meant for scouting. A Wheeler can always run.

[Ithekro]

14" guns rather than 12" and we'll see who eats who on the tonnage.

[Tanthalas]

14" guns rather than 12" and we'll see who eats who on the tonnage.

LOL agreed, but I was sticking to the basic Russian idea.  if I were to build a ship that large/fast it would almost have to have 14" guns minimum (realy I would want to find a way to slip 15.5s on it but that is HARD)

[Tanthalas]

After much internal debate the folowing ship has been proposed to the Naval High Command of the Mark.  It is tentitivly scheduled for a January 1 1919 laydown.

Eorl V.R. BB-20, Rohan Battleship laid down 1919 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   33,000 t light; 34,774 t standard; 36,780 t normal; 38,385 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   673.00 ft / 664.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   205.13 m / 202.39 m x 32.92 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      9 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.00lbs / 884.96kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1919 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 18,486 lbs / 8,385 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   264.00 ft / 80.47 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Upper:   13.0" / 330 mm   398.40 ft / 121.43 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 19 deg. all armor +1 (imp. KC)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   28.31 ft / 8.63 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      4.00" / 102 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 46,084 shp / 34,378 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 8,525nm at 13.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,610 tons

Complement:
   1,327 - 1,726

Cost:
   £7.064 million / $28.254 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,211 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 14,051 tons, 38.2 %
      - Belts: 6,208 tons, 16.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 628 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 3,029 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,875 tons, 10.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 310 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,611 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,627 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,780 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57,053 lbs / 25,879 Kg = 30.6 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 9.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.598
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 16.44 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.00 ft / -1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.50 ft / 9.30 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.31 ft / 6.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,369 Square feet or 4,865 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,016 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

500 tons Misc. Weight
250 tons 1918 FC
50 tons Flag Facilities
50 tons Crew Comfort (Heating, Cooling, Aditional Coffee Pots)
25 tons Long Range Wireless
25 tons Improved Huelsmyer type Radar
25 tons Single Flying Boat and Facilities
125 tons Reserved

[Ithekro]

15.5" would bring the number of guns down to six, I think.  Maybe one or two more if you get creative with the number of turrets (say two quad turrets, or two twins and a triple, or two triples and a twin), but that 35,000 ton light limits you in that area.  My older designs tended to favor firepower to speed and thus could get 8 or 9 large guns on a hull, but it could only go maybe 28 knots with effective armor.

I was generally keeping the Battlecruisers one gun size below the battleships, so with the new 15.5" battleships, one would produce 14" guns battlecruisers.  By that logic at least.  Since the size restriction will probably make going to 17" impractical, 15.5" and 14" gunned captial ships will be the way to go until one can get the weights down enough to outfit a treaty battleship with enough 17" guns to make her worthwhile.

Or produce super-heavy 15.5" shells....that is what Rohan did in 1898 with the 12" verse the Anahuac 13"...make the 12" superior quality with heavier shells to defeat the slightly larger guns.  They might not have the range, or quite as much penerating power, but they'll have a larger explosive power and penetration ability to an equal diameter shell...enough to make it a 13" equivalent...on paper.  Change this to the 15.5" and you'll have a shell that can equal a 16" shell easily, and perhaps even nearly match a standard 17" shell....again, on paper.

[Tanthalas]

actualy you can do 6X15.5 30+ knots on 27,300 tons in 3 twins.  I would think on 35K I could proly get 8+ guns to 30+ knots.  I just dont see a reason for it personaly (and outside the 3 Asfaloth type ships I intend to keep the BCs one gun size smaller than the BBs)

[ctwaterman]

You can put 1912 Fire Control on her but 1918 Fire Control lets see the first roles would come around in 1920 HY1.

And since we have to have the tech when the ship is laid down... Painful its delayed my newest BB from laying down for over a year.  But were supposed to have them.

[Tanthalas]

You can put 1912 Fire Control on her but 1918 Fire Control lets see the first roles would come around in 1920 HY1.

And since we have to have the tech when the ship is laid down... Painful its delayed my newest BB from laying down for over a year.  But were supposed to have them.

1912 then, it was just suposed to be whatever the newest one at that point was.  I thought it was 1918 for some reason (not exactly sure why either Proly cause im working on the 1918 one and I was doing HY reports before I got the wild hair to sim that ship)

[Ithekro]

Wouldn't be the first time Rohan delayed construction to refit a building ship on the slips for new Fire Control technology.

[ctwaterman]

Hey My Newest BB only like 6 Months in Active Duty just went in for a Fire Control Upgrade, new paint on her bottom and more polish on the Brass.

I understand Completely.

Charles