Indochinese Ships

Started by hooper82, September 28, 2009, 07:45:17 PM

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hooper82

The deal with France has brought to the forfront the future requirements for oilers for the Indochinese navy.  While currently its strictly a greenwater (and coal fired) fleet, Indochina has little spare capacity for anything other than ammunition.  Building a Oiler will let the Indochinese Shipbuilders work while not diverting industrial capacity from much needed munition productions.
The Tro class was born.  A stable vessel able to support distance operations by future Indochinese vessels.  It was lightly armed mainly to ward off surfaced subs or inquisitive Airships.  Better protection was expected to be provided by a future class of dedicated Escort/Patrol craft.  The Indochinese Naval Design Bureau had heard about underway refueling, but had yet to receive hard data.  In preparation a generous 150 tons was set aside for future equipment to be installed.



Quote
Tro class Auxiliary Oiler, Indochina (AO) laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   2,736 t light; 2,908 t standard; 8,573 t normal; 13,105 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.14 ft / 390.42 ft x 55.77 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   119.52 m / 119.00 m x 17.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
     1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
   Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,002 shp / 8,207 Kw = 18.29 kts
   Range 55,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 10,196 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £0.288 million / $1.153 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 439 tons, 5.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,921 tons, 22.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,837 tons, 68.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 4.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,425 lbs / 21,965 Kg = 3,762.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 8.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (30 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 23.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,453 Square feet or 1,621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 677 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 352 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 tons Long-Range Radio
150 tons Reserve for Underway Refueling
200 tons Building Reserve
Built to Mercantile Standards

Standard Fuel Load - 1,917 tons (Oil)
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Range 3,450nm at 18.00 kts

Liquid Cargo Load - 8,200 tons

EDIT : Trim
EDIT : Drop to 0.70 Block Coefficient
EDIT : Added Radio
EDIT : Added more misc weight, changed trim, added ranges.
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

The Rock Doctor

With that coefficient, she's a floating brick.  On the other hand, I've never seen a stability rating that high, ever.

TexanCowboy

Thats got to be the highest BC ever. That's like my aborted Type 0 battleship. 1.00 BC.

hooper82

Edited Trim.

She's a merchentman...its ment to be a brick.  Hell, look at the thing.

What are the norms for Merchentmen?
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

TexanCowboy

About .650 to .700. Even though it says .800 and up in Springsharp, that portion is slightly flawed.

hooper82

Droped CoEf to 0.70 after advice from Mods.
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

hooper82

#6
The Indochinese Naval Design Bureau quickly adopted the hull for a general cargo ship.  Adding cranes and cargo holds instead of liquid holds, the Con La class was born.  The Con La class AKs maintain a commonality with the Tro class AOs, leading to easier training of engineers and maintenance.  The dedicated cranes allow rapid loading and unloading, even where infrastructure is poor.



Quote
Con La class Auxiliary Cargo, Indochina (AK) laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,630 t light; 5,803 t standard; 8,573 t normal; 10,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.14 ft / 390.42 ft x 55.77 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   119.52 m / 119.00 m x 17.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
   Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,002 shp / 8,207 Kw = 18.29 kts
   Range 22,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,986 tons (61% coal)

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £0.479 million / $1.916 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 465 tons, 5.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,989 tons, 23.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,943 tons, 34.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,175 tons, 37.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,054 lbs / 6,375 Kg = 1,091.8 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 99 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (30 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,453 Square feet or 1,621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 208 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 365 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.81
      - Overall: 1.05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 tons Long-Range Radio
150 tons Un/Loading Cranes
200 tons Building Reserve
2800 tons Cargo Hold
Built to Mercantile Standards

Standard Fuel Load - 1,917 tons (Oil)
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Range 3,450nm at 18.00 kts

Cargo Load - 5,600 tons

NOTE - Coal fired engine and bunker used to sim cargo load.

EDIT : To conform with 50/50 rules
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

hooper82

The Indochinese Naval Design Bureau followed on to other Auxiliary vessels, hoping to use the Tro hull.  However, it was found unsuitable.  But, reducing the draft of the Tro Hull did provide a usefull vessel for many purposes.  Learning the lessons of the RRC at Cat Ba Island, it was decided that a dedicated Infantry Transport and Amphibious Operations vessel would be useful.  The Ngua class Auxiliary Personnel Lander was born.  Very similar to the original Tro hull, the Ngua hull was shallower, allowing for operations closer to the shoreline.  Smaller, less powerfull machinery was installed but the vessel still had the 18+ knot top speed of other Auxiliary's.  While the machinery was different, the drive shaft, rudder assembly, and everything else was kept as close to the Tro hull as possible for ease of training and maintenance.



Quote
Ngua class Auxiliary Personel Lander, Indochina (APL) laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,054 t light; 5,177 t standard; 6,073 t normal; 6,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.14 ft / 390.42 ft x 55.77 ft x 13.94 ft (normal load)
   119.52 m / 119.00 m x 17.00 m  x 4.25 m

Armament:
     1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
   Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 shp / 6,714 Kw = 18.22 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,612 tons

Complement:
   343 - 447

Cost:
   £0.416 million / $1.662 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 359 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,669 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,018 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,025 tons, 49.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,433 lbs / 4,279 Kg = 732.8 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (30 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,453 Square feet or 1,621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 162 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 327 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25ton Long-Range Radio
2400ton long-term Troop Quaters. (1200 troops)
300ton Landing Craft (600 troops at a time, with a days range)
100ton Medical Facilities (25 Bed Ward)
200 ton Building Reserve
Built to Mercantile Standards

Standard Fuel Load - 1,617 tons (Oil)
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 18.00 kts
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

hooper82

#8
A simple modification of the Ngua class turned it into a Troop Transport.  However, the Indochinese Admiralty is dubious as to whether its worth building the Troop Transport version over the Amphibious Transport.



Quote
Nhieu class Auxiliary Personel, Indochina (AP) laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,054 t light; 5,177 t standard; 6,073 t normal; 6,789 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   392.14 ft / 390.42 ft x 55.77 ft x 13.94 ft (normal load)
   119.52 m / 119.00 m x 17.00 m  x 4.25 m

Armament:
     1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
   Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 shp / 6,714 Kw = 18.22 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,612 tons

Complement:
   343 - 447

Cost:
   £0.416 million / $1.662 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 359 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,669 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,018 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3,025 tons, 49.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,433 lbs / 4,279 Kg = 732.8 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (30 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m before break)
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,453 Square feet or 1,621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 162 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 67 lbs/sq ft or 327 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25ton Long-Range Radio
2800ton long-term Troop Quaters. (1400 troops)
200 ton Building Reserve
Built to Mercantile Standards

Standard Fuel Load - 1,617 tons (Oil)
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Range 3,500nm at 18.00 kts
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

mentat


Great series of auxilliaries

for short range operations - the Amphibious Transport does seem more useful

Love the drawings - and hate to throw spanner in the works - but in this period (until 1950ish) it was more typical to have Bridge amidhips (better visibility over bow/for entering port/docking etc) - and second superstructure aft with funnels

i think would still work well with all the versions - and give them more balanced + handsome appearance (Merchant Ships built up to c.1960 definitely looked much better than modern stuff) - but it would mean a lot of re-drawing :(

The Rock Doctor

Good set of ideas. 

Cargo allocation on the cargo ship ought to be adjusted, though - realistically, a significant portion of the freight should be above waterline, simmed as miscellaneous weight. 

My other suggestion is to move the 75mm gun aft, as the ship is more likely to be fleeing than chasing if the gun is being used.

hooper82

#11
Quote from: mentat on September 29, 2009, 06:06:46 AM
Love the drawings - and hate to throw spanner in the works - but in this period (until 1950ish) it was more typical to have Bridge amidhips (better visibility over bow/for entering port/docking etc) - and second superstructure aft with funnels

i think would still work well with all the versions - and give them more balanced + handsome appearance (Merchant Ships built up to c.1960 definitely looked much better than modern stuff) - but it would mean a lot of re-drawing :(
Yeah...I thought of that.  In fact I have serious doubts whether the funnels so far back could be made to work.  I theorized that the boilers would be kept aft, with just the turbines near the driveshaft.
I considered a complete reversal, move the superstructure forward, have the single 75mm gun aft (as per The Rock Doctor's suggestion) and keep the center free.  This would give more visibility for docking etc.
However...I kinda like that ugly, bridge at the rear look... Traditionally ships weren't built like this until the 1970's as you said...however is there any technical reasons for not building that way in 1920?  Other than the more difficult docking as you said.

I also intend on creating a Seaplane Tender version of the shallow hull.  Having one large hanger instead of two smaller ones, seams like a better use of space (similar to the cargo version, larger bulk objects can be carried).  Thoughts?

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 29, 2009, 06:45:09 AM
Cargo allocation on the cargo ship ought to be adjusted, though - realistically, a significant portion of the freight should be above waterline, simmed as miscellaneous weight.  

Huh, it was Maddox that suggested I sim it that way.  Otherwise I'd be stuck with a cargo vessel using the shallower hull and only able to haul around 3000tons of cargo (compared to 8kton from the tanker).  What is the best way to sim this?  Cargo is held both above and below the waterline?

Quote from: The Rock Doctor on September 29, 2009, 06:45:09 AM
My other suggestion is to move the 75mm gun aft, as the ship is more likely to be fleeing than chasing if the gun is being used.
I also thought of that.  I figured I could move the life boats/launches elsewhere (beside the main superstructure? or funnels?) and move or add a 2nd 75mm gun into that location.
But!  Submarine attacks during this time period, due to the very low underwater speed, where conducting attacks from in front of the target.  Even sub's surfaced speed left a lot to be desired, and I wonder if they could really keep up with one of these steaming away at 18 knots?  The fast liners of WW2 where considered relatively safe due to their 30 knot speed, and often sailed without convoys.
I also wonder what effect 12.7' HMG's would have on a sub's ability to surface?
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

The Rock Doctor

I reckon your ship will still turn away from the submarine to avoid torpedoes, hence the gun aft.

QuoteHuh, it was Maddox that suggested I sim it that way.  Otherwise I'd be stuck with a cargo vessel using the shallower hull and only able to haul around 3000tons of cargo (compared to 8kton from the tanker).  What is the best way to sim this?  Cargo is held both above and below the waterline?

Miscellaneous weight is considered above-waterline and bunkerage is considered below.  For cargo ships, I think it's best to assume a mix of the two - maybe leaning one way or the other, but not excessively so. 

Yes, this does reduce the capability of the ship, but I think it keeps the design itself realistic.

Agree that this could make a good seaplane tender, but like any conversion of a previous design, the designers would probably find obstacles to creating an ideal seaplane tender.  Bulkheads that can't be moved, designed load distrbution, blah-blah-blah.


hooper82

#13
I was just talking with Maddox and he brought up the Tender rule (50% Misc 50% Bunkerage).  Might have to follow the same rules until we move to SS3?

Edited AK to conform with 50/50 rules.

I'm sure your right re: running away and gun placement...but then having disadvantages cause of an eccentric designer its half the fun =)
<_kr4m3r> so many fucking criminals, its bullshit
<foniks`> heh, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
<foniks`> and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
<foniks`> whatd u think they'd say?
<FoSZoR[bg]> something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"

maddox

#14
Springsharp is hugely deficient in simming cargo vessels.

I tried this (again).

Cyclope,French tender laid down 1912

QuoteDisplacement:
   12.546 t light; 12.940 t standard; 19.690 t normal; 25.091 t full load (add 8150 ton to compensate for the fuel-cargo convertion)

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   541,34 ft / 541,34 ft x 65,62 ft x 27,56 ft (normal load)
   165,00 m / 165,00 m x 20,00 m  x 8,40 m

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 8.150 ihp / 6.080 Kw = 15,00 kts
   Range 40.000nm at 10,00 kts (10.000nm at 10 kts after fuel to cargo)
   Bunker at max displacement = 12.150 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   830 - 1.080

Cost:
   £0,515 million / $2,059 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 540 tons, 2,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.857 tons, 19,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7.144 tons, 36,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 8.150 tons, 41,4% + 8150 tons change over from fuel load

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31.370 lbs / 14.229 Kg = 290,5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 3,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 3,1 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 15,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 33 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,704
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 29 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 21
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,59 ft / 7,80 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,27 ft / 4,96 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,27 ft / 4,96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,27 ft / 4,96 m
      - Stern:      16,27 ft / 4,96 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,02 ft / 5,19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106,7%
   Waterplane Area: 28.572 Square feet or 2.654 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 213%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 433 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

This ship is based on USS Cyclops

Misc weigth is eeked out with the same amount of weight from fuel, giving a combined load of 16300 tons and a range  of 10000nm.

Hull weight changes to 20696 ton light - 1000 ton heavier than Cyclops under load, what was build to take 8000 tons of cargo.