Making Invencible less, er, vencible...

[The Rock Doctor]

I posted this design in Tex's Romanian BB competition as an alternative to a new-build 12" battleship.  It is an extensive upgrade to the Invencible class semi-dreadnoughts. 

Once Romania and Rohan get back to me, I may still have one or even both units in my inventory.  I'm curious to see whether the board views this as a useful investment, considering what new-build battleships of our present time look like.

The 305mm/40 cal guns are replaced with 45/cal guns, and a fourth turret is added in a superfiring position between the existing amidships and aft turrets, Furioso/Radiante style.  Prelimnary sketches suggest this new turret will have up to three hundred degrees for a firing arc.

The three funnels are trunked into two, allowing a small superstructure to be built between the funnels and the amidships turret.  This will replace the superstructure razed to fit the new turret.

The secondary battery is reduced.  Bulges are added for stability and strength.  Machinery is replaced with newer, oil-firing boilers and turbines, and the bunkerage changed over to all-oil.

More miscellaneous weight to allow fire control.

No alteration to armor - the height of the belt of this ship remains a deficiency to me, but I interpret the rules (that I wrote) to mean I can't increase belt height.

Estimated cost:  ~$12 and ~5.6 BP for me.  The ship have another fifteen years of life or so, but would unquestionably be a second-rate battleship from the get-go.
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Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1907 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   17,479 t light; 18,546 t standard; 19,400 t normal; 20,083 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 82.02 ft (Bulges 85.30 ft) x 23.79 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 25.00 m (Bulges 26.00 m)  x 7.25 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 7,942 lbs / 3,603 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Ends:   4.33" / 110 mm   195.18 ft / 59.49 m   10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Upper:   6.50" / 165 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   6.50" / 165 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.30" / 33 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 23.20 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,537 tons)

Complement:
   821 - 1,068

Cost:
   £1.654 million / $6.617 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 993 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 7,272 tons, 37.5 %
      - Belts: 3,383 tons, 17.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,225 tons, 11.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,462 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 202 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,490 tons, 7.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,324 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,921 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     29,942 lbs / 13,581 Kg = 34.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.54 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.21 ft / 6.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,458 Square feet or 3,108 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 748 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1907 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread

You wrote  "superfiring position"
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Globaly a good rebuilt & usefull to help the BBs in the battleline.


;)

[The Rock Doctor]

Hmm, that's something I'll have to fix.

[Guinness]

We already know I'm gung-ho about rebuilding old dreadnoughts. The biggest advantage to it is the amount of time a rebuild can be done in, compared to real construction.

For your ship, I'd consider removing and replacing the upper belt with something thicker (that ought to be ok, right?). This gets you almost all the advantages of a taller main belt.

To afford that, you can probably accept 10 mm less deck armor or so.

[The Rock Doctor]

Truth be told, the upper belt isn't high enough either - I simply did not have a good grasp of armor distribution at the time I designed her.  There is an unprotected gap of around a metre somewhere above the waterline - either between the main and upper belts (which would be stupid) or between the upper belt and the deck (which is less stupid).

In theory, though - yes, that could be an option. 

[TexanCowboy]

That would be interesting, to create a fast battleship squad out of those ships.

[Tanthalas]

Rohan has the 12" division.  Good ships realy and they serve nicely in their curent tasking.

[The Rock Doctor]

The speed would be about consistent with new Colombian battleships, really.  The fast division would be my larger armored cruisers.

[Tanthalas]

The speed would be about consistent with new Colombian battleships, really.  The fast division would be my larger armored cruisers.

oh I agree, although I have a fast 12" wing and a slow 12" wing. 

[The Rock Doctor]

Here we are with a superfiring turret and improved protection.  Estimated cost is $13.60 and 7.1 BP.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1905 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   18,202 t light; 19,086 t standard; 20,073 t normal; 20,863 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 82.02 ft (Bulges 86.94 ft) x 24.15 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 25.00 m (Bulges 26.50 m)  x 7.36 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,282 lbs / 3,757 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   195.18 ft / 59.49 m   10.86 ft / 3.31 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   362.53 ft / 110.50 m   11.68 ft / 3.56 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.50" / 165 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   3rd:   6.50" / 165 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 22.44 kts
   Range 9,200nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,777 tons)

Complement:
   843 - 1,096

Cost:
   £1.694 million / $6.778 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,035 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 7,668 tons, 38.2 %
      - Belts: 3,643 tons, 18.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,355 tons, 11.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,462 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 207 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,341 tons, 6.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,758 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,871 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,085 lbs / 14,554 Kg = 37.1 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.21 ft / 6.16 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,458 Square feet or 3,108 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 161 lbs/sq ft or 786 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

I wonder How long to do the rebuild out of curiosity more than anything

[The Rock Doctor]

I make it to be eleven months.